Kerbal Construction Time/StageRecovery Dev Thread

[JeffreyCor]

Bug in the new simulation costing system. If there is not enough money to build the ship after the funds are removed for running the simulation it refuses to simulate giving a not enough funds message but still removes the funds for simulating.

For an example, have 5000, ship costs 4500, sim costs 600. Clicking sim removes 600 giving 4400 funds, this is less then 4500 so says not enough to build ship and doesn't leave VAB/SPH even though the 600 for simulating was removed.

[Stage]

After 3 complete reinstalls and updating all mods to their newest version it works perfect like ever before.

I decided to wipe everything because after I started deleting KAS, ExPL caused a ton of errors, after that ResourceRecovery and so on.

I have no idea what happend the last couple of days, maybe the new KAE or MM solved those problems.

I'm just glad that I can play with KCT again, and everything works

[thrandisher]

So im not sure if its just me or what. After i build a rocket, ill select it in the menu to launch, it will then ask to fill a crew member up. But when i select a spot and toss one in, or use the auto fill, then hit launch. Vehicle shows up on the pad but there are no kerbals at all in it. Worked fine pre 7.1 version.

Also. If i leave the kct window up in vab and exit to space center, i cant close the window, and hiting the icon on the toolbar does nothing. I have to go back into vab, close it there, then exit out.

I dont know if its me or if something went haywire when i updated this last batch of mods.

If anyone can confirm its working like normal, then ill figure out what i did wrong.

This is with KCT 7.1

Really liking this mod. Adds a great challenge to things.

Bit of a exploit, but you can load up previously made ship in career mod even tho you cant launch it normaly (due to not being there tech wise) , you can build it, and then launch it.

[magico13]

The only way I can see this happening is if there's something going wrong in the Start() prior to the functions that close the Editor window and assign Kerbals to vessels. If at all possible, could you get me a copy of the output_log.txt file from the KSP_Data (or KSP_x64_Data if using 64 bit) folder from after a play session where either problem happened (preferably with as few other things going on as possible. Just start KSP, cause it to happen, then close KSP). I can take a look then and see if I can find out what's going wrong.

Second question, how are you able to even load a ship you don't have the tech for? The VAB/SPH doesn't allow that. I might be able to add some checks in myself, but I don't even know how to cause that to happen.

@Stage Glad it's working for you now!

@JeffreyCor That's obviously now fixed in the version you're testing and will be fixed for the next release for everyone else.

Speaking of next releases! After the next release I plan on doing a full version 1.0 release in the Addon Releases forum. As such, if there's anything else you'd like to see implemented, changed, or tweaked, now is the best time to mention them. After release I'm going to be less likely to add experimental new features that may be game-breaking.

[CatastrophicFailure]

Hey Magico I just sent you an email. I've got a weird bug that I think is KCT related in that removing KCT fixed it, at least for 30 minutes or so. When loading a flight scene this ship is half gone and things are generally wonkie. Lots of errors in the debug log, I sent you a few.

[Kethevin]

I noticed an issue on my new game. I'm getting the regular menu inside the VAB. By regular, I mean the one you normally see outside, that lists VAB builds, SPH builds, Tech, settings, etc. There is no option to build or run a simulation. I've tried clicking the toolbar, it just opens and closes this menu. Also, the stock launch button is not disabled. I'm guessing it's a mod conflict but wanted to see if anyone else is experiencing this.

EDIT: Just a quick note, I went back to 7.0.5 and everything works fine.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Kethevin
Updating post

[magico13]

Hey Magico I just sent you an email. I've got a weird bug that I think is KCT related in that removing KCT fixed it, at least for 30 minutes or so. When loading a flight scene this ship is half gone and things are generally wonkie. Lots of errors in the debug log, I sent you a few.

Just replied to you by email. Summed up: I need the output_log.txt file if you can get it since the KSP.log file doesn't provide details about errors, just that there are some. And I'd also try updating TweakScale.

I noticed an issue on my new game.

EDIT: Just a quick note, I went back to 7.0.5 and everything works fine.

Did you try restarting KSP and loading the save with 7.1 prior to using 7.0.5 again? There's a chance it might just be a bug with making a new save. Otherwise this bug sounds similar to thrandisher's (well, to me at least) in that it could be an issue with the Start() function not going all the way through. I would also ask for a copy of the output_log.txt file from the KSP_Data or KSP_x64_Data folder (if you're using 32 bit or 64 bit, respectively). It may provide more detail. I can't think of a non-bugged reason why it would be acting like that.

[thrandisher]

Ill try to get ya a log here in a bit. Have a dumpster and been working on filling it up before tomorrow with yard debris.

On a quick note with the loading up ships that dont have the tech to. I was never able to do that before and thought it was a .24 thing, lol. I remember in a past version you could do that and strip down the invallid parts. I know that when i try to fly one of those rockets, without kct installed, it will say im unable to due to not having the tech for part name blah blah blah.

EDIT: Added file and brief wall of text below.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1176423/output_log.txt

Yes, i know i have a mod problem. Ive cut down, i swear it!

Anyway. That is just a, load game, go to vab and do a mk3, exit out and build it, then launching it and selecting the FILL button that tosses in 3 kerbals. On launch pad there are 0 in there. This problem and the one that kethevin reported started on this lastest version. How to simulate his problem is to be on the space station screen, hit KCT icon on blizzy tool bar and then go into vab and you will have it showing just like his picture. Only way to get rid of that is to exit to space station and close down the window there, then go into vab and hit KCT and window will apear normaly. Just have to close it down before exiting VAB or it will be stuck there. Same cituation happens if you go into tracking station also with how the windows stay up.

Edited August 7, 2014 by thrandisher

[Kethevin]

Did you try restarting KSP and loading the save with 7.1 prior to using 7.0.5 again? There's a chance it might just be a bug with making a new save. Otherwise this bug sounds similar to thrandisher's (well, to me at least) in that it could be an issue with the Start() function not going all the way through. I would also ask for a copy of the output_log.txt file from the KSP_Data or KSP_x64_Data folder (if you're using 32 bit or 64 bit, respectively). It may provide more detail. I can't think of a non-bugged reason why it would be acting like that.

Indeed. I completely exited and re-entered twice before loading up 7.0.5.

Will the output log help if I've switched to 7.0.5? Should I return to 7.1.0, run the game, see if the error remains and then send it? I was under the impression it get written over with each new game session.

[Kethevin]

I put 7.1.0. back in and ran the game. I entered VAB and the correct menu (with the build option) was visible. I thought maybe it was because 7.0.5 was previously running. So I decided to exit out and start a new game to see what happened. When I returned to the space center view, the KCT menu was still the one from the VAB, with the option to build or simulate. I returned to the VAB and it back how it was yesterday, the space center menu was there.

Also, I noticed when I clicked KCT on the tool bar, rather than having the menu disappear, it just reduced it to a line.

Rather than fill the thread with screenshots, I'll just PM them to you along with the output log.

[magico13]

Curiously, the issues Kethevin and thrandisher are seeing are due to my other mod, StageRecovery. Both of you are running fairly old versions of StageRecovery that do not have the API changes that KCT needs. Updating StageRecovery to the latest version, version 1.3, should solve your issues Looks like I need to add a function to the API to get the version, just in case, although I don't intend on changing it again soon.

Latest version of StageRecovery can be downloaded here.

Also, I'm getting better at debugging! It was in fact an issue with Start() not finishing because of the API issue

[CatastrophicFailure]

Just replied to you by email. Summed up: I need the output_log.txt file if you can get it since the KSP.log file doesn't provide details about errors, just that there are some. And I'd also try updating TweakScale.

noted, ok. Might take me a couple days, I can just copy the whole KSP folder and clone it so I don't risk my "real" game trying to induce this bug again, right?

[ThreePounds]

Wow. I couldn't believe my eyes yesterday when I installed this mod. It is simply amazing. Until yesterday I never really had the feeling of running a space program. It still felt much like sandbox. But now there are so many new considerations going on, even from the very beginning. I disabled quicksave and revert to editor/launch to have an even immersed experience.

• Where do I put my upgrades? VAB, SPH or R&D?
  
• Do I wait for this technology to finish before I launch?
  
• Which ship takes less time to build? Do I use the old engine that's slightly worse, but finishes super quick, or do I take the slightly better engine that takes longer?
  
• I really need to get this launch right, otherwise I loose valuable time
  
• simulate different components of more complex spacecraft before launch
  
• more time planning / calculations
  

I am baffled. This mod is incredible. I really hope that this new Administrative Complex that Squad is planning is implementing similar features to the stock game, because this mod is all Squad ever promised Career mode to be. Contracts and Funds are fine, Science is excellent, but they don't make me feel like running a space program.

I have one question, though: Will I ever run out of "time?" I recall that the time is stored as seconds as 32bit-Integer, leaving some 250 years of ingame time as upper ceiling. Did anyone ever hit this limit while all this warping forward was going on? After one day of playing, I'm further in time than in all my save games combined.

[bdragon9222]

Hi magico13,

can you just add a random option to your crew selection GUI instead of using the first free one?

Like: "First available", "Whoever wants", "nobody"

You know what i mean?

[magico13]

noted, ok. Might take me a couple days, I can just copy the whole KSP folder and clone it so I don't risk my "real" game trying to induce this bug again, right?

Yeah, that should work. Sorry about having you do that, it's just very hard to figure anything out from the KSP.log.

Wow. I couldn't believe my eyes yesterday when I installed this mod.

I have one question, though: Will I ever run out of "time?" I recall that the time is stored as seconds as 32bit-Integer, leaving some 250 years of ingame time as upper ceiling. Did anyone ever hit this limit while all this warping forward was going on? After one day of playing, I'm further in time than in all my save games combined.

I'm very happy this mod has enhanced your KSP experience! It means I'm doing something right

In my main save I've not yet made it past year one (at about day 150) but am already interplanetary, but that's using the default build times and I don't get a whole lot of time to play. I'm curious as to how far other people are as well. Prior to using KCT in my main save I was only a day or two in and already going to the Mun.

I was under the impression that time was stored as a float or a double, as decimals are stored as well for the current time. Even with a float that should give a huge amount of time. But I know that people have somehow gone over, so maybe it doesn't go all the way to float.MaxValue (which is 3.402823 x 10^38, as opposed to int.MaxValue which is only 2,147,483,647, which is about 68 years)

Hi magico13,

can you just add a random option to your crew selection GUI instead of using the first free one?

Like: "First available", "Whoever wants", "nobody"

You know what i mean?

I think I know what you mean, instead of just adding the next free Kerbal, randomly choose crew from the list available. I may just make that how the Fill option works and I might also change the Hire button to hire a random kerbal instead of the first available applicant. Then you can still manually put people in seats if your care about order.

I'm away from my main computer until late Tuesday, so I can't do much if any development until then. It's possible to do work on my tablet, but it takes 5 minutes to load stock KSP and has a 10 inch screen (not so great for programming)

[Mr Shifty]

Just wanted to chime in. I'm running about 50 mods in a challenge/hardcore career run, and KCT, more than any other mod, has changed the way KSP plays and feels. It really adds a necessary dimension that is missing from the stock game. Really nice work here.

[ThreePounds]

to the topic of running out of time: max-number-of-year?

Of course he's just theorizing, but I'm less worried now and can happily warp again.

I'm at day 105 now and I haven't even put a single satellite into orbit. Maybe I'm doing things extra slowly.

[undercoveryankee]

I was under the impression that time was stored as a float or a double, as decimals are stored as well for the current time. Even with a float that should give a huge amount of time. But I know that people have somehow gone over, so maybe it doesn't go all the way to float.MaxValue (which is 3.402823 x 10^38, as opposed to int.MaxValue which is only 2,147,483,647, which is about 68 years)

The in-game time display goes negative at a time that indicates a signed 32-bit number of seconds. Since the number in the persistence file is floating-point and vessels and bodies on rails don't teleport when the time rolls over, I'm pretty sure that the floating-point value is the master, with the 32-bit value just being an intermediate step before breaking out years, days, hours, and minutes.

[CatastrophicFailure]

Yeah, that should work. Sorry about having you do that, it's just very hard to figure anything out from the KSP.log.

Its all good, even if I could comprehend what you modders do, stuff like tracking bugs would drive me batty, so I'm happy to do the easy part.

On a completely different note, would it be at all possible to get the system to recognize complete recovered vessels, beyond just a pile of parts for recycling?

[Mr Shifty]

I was under the impression that time was stored as a float or a double, as decimals are stored as well for the current time. Even with a float that should give a huge amount of time. But I know that people have somehow gone over, so maybe it doesn't go all the way to float.MaxValue (which is 3.402823 x 10^38, as opposed to int.MaxValue which is only 2,147,483,647, which is about 68 years)

The problem with floats is that you sacrifice precision to get those large exponents. Floating point numbers are represented (in binary) with a mantissa and an exponent, sort of like scientific notation (1.234x10⁵⁶, where 1.234 is the mantissa and 56 is the exponent.) Each floating point format (32-bit, 64-bit, etc) has a standardized (IEEE 754 is the standard) number of bits in the mantissa and in the exponent. The number of bits in the exponent determines how large the number can be while the number of bits in the mantissa determines how precise the number can be. To represent time in KSP, there is some degree of absolute precision that is necessary: I suspect hundredths or thousandths of seconds at minimum in order to render successive video frames correctly. This basically means that the exponent is almost useless; it's the mantissa that determines how much time can be stored in the number. For singles, you get a little more than 7 decimal digits, and for doubles you get not quite 16. If you need thousandths of a second, that ties up three of your digits, which means that singles would only give you about a day, while doubles would get you out to about 3 million years. I'm not exactly sure how KSP handles time, but it's more complicated than "I can represent 10³⁸ in a float."

[Kethevin]

Curiously, the issues Kethevin and thrandisher are seeing are due to my other mod, StageRecovery.

Sorry about that, I usually keep my mods pretty well updated. Thank you for identifying the issue.

I'd like to echo other posters here and say this mod adds a great dimension to the game. The passage of time in the game makes it feel more real, I never liked having played half-way through the tech tree to see only a matter of days had gone by.

It also adds a level of tension when you combine things like life support and Dang It!, knowing you can't just build and launch a rescue or repair vessel on the spot means you have to plan ahead. I like that. :-)

[thrandisher]

ugg. swore i updated to 1.3 and as i look at directory where i keep files at, sure enough im at 1.2.1 . Found the 1.3 zip in the directory that i keep disables ones at, along with a few other ones that got placed in there. Glad it was a "easy" fix

Ya, as a few others have said, this has totaly changed the way i play. Im at 3 years and im just starting to get ready to head to Mun. Normaly by now ive just about given up with the game due to fps lag and toss it on the shelve for a month or two, but now im still going full steam in it

Will update that one and get a bit of playign in and let ya know if it all works out.

[ThreePounds]

Ya, as a few others have said, this has totaly changed the way i play. Im at 3 years and im just starting to get ready to head to Mun. Normaly by now ive just about given up with the game due to fps lag and toss it on the shelve for a month or two, but now im still going full steam in it

Yes, it's strangely motivating. Before I was mainly goofing around without many targets. But now that construction takes time, I actually want to keep both the VAB and SPH building, forcing me to constantly come up with new projects and running them simultaneously.

It's good to know that I'm not the only one going slow. .. It's day 140 and I'm about to attempt a launch of a modest satellite network now.

[mouzfun]

Is there a way to run a simulation in orbit/other planets with dealy reentry without rapid disassembly? well, i assume it's DR, my ship blows up and in flight log there is some messages about reaching G limits.

[magico13]

Is there a way to run a simulation in orbit/other planets with dealy reentry without rapid disassembly? well, i assume it's DR, my ship blows up and in flight log there is some messages about reaching G limits.

It's always worked fine for me with DR but I honestly haven't gotten to play 0.24 at all since it was released, so I haven't had a chance to try it. I believe I saw a similar issue in the HyperEdit thread (as the code I use is derived from HyperEdit). When I get home next week I can do some experimentation to see if it happens on my end as well.

The ship should be packed and on rails when the transfer occurs though, so I'm not sure why that's happening. At the very least, it didn't occur in 0.23.5. You could try using HyperEdit and see if it still happens, or try without DR to verify that it's related.