APOLLO (SATURN-V with F1 & J2, APOLLO CSM, LEM, LLRV). by OLDD (v.1.4. 09.05.14)

[DennyTX]

[Guest]

Nice, though not quite realistic yet. Only a small cap in each of the fairings should come off. The rest stays intact. The retrorocket opening is located about halfway between the end of the fin and the fairing's tip. Here is a good drawing: http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=18085

[TMBakeNaut]

Good to have you back, have made many the Moon (Munar) trips in you ships.

[DennyTX]

Good to have you back, have made many the Moon (Munar) trips in you ships.

thanks for warm words . indeed, i come back to modelling and configuring and trying to create extended version of APOLLO-SATURN pack.

1. LLRV will come back.

2. LRV will be not a brick but a car

3. SATURN-IB stage and H-1 engine will been added.

4. APOLLO CM IVA added.

5. APOLLO LEM IVA rebuilt.

6. APOLLO functional subsat has been added.

7. ALSEP devices reworked.

8. APOLLO SM block III in progress and will be added (shorted SM)

9. More stage separation effects has been added.

10. most textures reworked.

looking for tester (and/or bughunter) for increasing speed of release.

Edited September 20, 2014 by DennyTX

[Reddragon]

looking for tester (and/or bughunter) for increasing speed of release.

I tested Lovad's parts for the World Space mod. I can help you too if you need it.

Also, it's good to see you back!

Edited September 20, 2014 by Reddragon

[RedAV8R]

Great! Please also add to the list Apollo CM RCS fixes.

1. Add 2 pairs of roll thrusters. Each pair about 45 degrees from either side of the side hatch. 2 thrusters firing to opposite sides on the same pod.

2. Move the top RCS pod to the other side. Both RCS pods for pitch are on the same side as the side hatch. This can be done by simply taking the top half of the CM (all that covered by the forward heat shield) and rotating it 180 degrees.

[DennyTX]

Great! Please also add to the list Apollo CM RCS fixes.

1. Add 2 pairs of roll thrusters. Each pair about 45 degrees from either side of the side hatch. 2 thrusters firing to opposite sides on the same pod.

2. Move the top RCS pod to the other side. Both RCS pods for pitch are on the same side as the side hatch. This can be done by simply taking the top half of the CM (all that covered by the forward heat shield) and rotating it 180 degrees.

i have tried this.

becomes impossible to drive csm, too many parasiting vectors on one side. as i saw on pictures, CM did not have RCS on its hatch opposite side. because of this i placed top RCS block looking at back side (for better playability in game)

Edited September 20, 2014 by DennyTX

[RedAV8R]

ModuleRCSFX will solve all those problems. One must ensure that the CoM is also correct, otherwise it won't work either.

If you model it. I will do all cfg work needed to make it work.

[Guest]

Will you add the APS pods for the S-IVB? Also, retrorockets for S-II could be handy: http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=18233 Oh, and if you're making the S-IB, you could add retros to it, too: http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=17906 They make the separation so much cooler.

I can help you with testing, too.

[DennyTX]

Will you add the APS pods for the S-IVB? Also, retrorockets for S-II could be handy: http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=18233 Oh, and if you're making the S-IB, you could add retros to it, too: http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=17906 They make the separation so much cooler.

I can help you with testing, too.

tell me more about APS functionality plz (ingame too). it r small boxes on aft side of S-IVB, right? may be a forgot it....

S-II retros present in model, but still unfunctional. i can add it as working separate part, it is simple, but rocket is too hard to assemble already. are adding additional separate parts be a right way?

[Guest]

Yes, radially attaching separation motors isn't that hard. In general, while people sometimes have trouble with complex stack setups, small parts with radial attachment are usually fine.

As for the APS, those are the small boxes on the side of S-IVB. They have three RCS thrusters and a small ullage motor (using hypergolic propellants):

They were used for ullage prior to TLI, and for controlling S-IVB during the coast phase. In-game, they'd make the S-IVB somewhat easier to maneuver.

[DennyTX]

well, i c ullage engine there. movies about S-IVB separation told us there were 3 torch, so - we should have 3 APS onboard, right? (but your pic shows only 2). or i have missed something? APS and separations engines must be separate devices (oh mein gott..)? its easy to add all engines and make it working (as standart RCS i guess), and assembly and staging the rocket will be interesting for me, but will such structure be interesting for other ppl? Some realism must be sacrificed for playability (i guess), for example my decoupleabled shrouds on S-IC. without it the effect of separation is poor.

[RedAV8R]

Honestly if you simply model things correctly for realism, you can nerf it for playability all you want with configs, then it's simply a matter of making a config for realism, which Dragon, NK, or myself can do. They key is the model, with good transforms for RCS and engine thrust. With configs you can make things real or playable.

Edited September 20, 2014 by RedAV8R

[Guest]

There were indeed three separation motors and three APS pods. The three sep motors had a roughly four second burn, with the APS having a significantly longer and more controllable lifespan. FASA has the APS modeled well.

And just a note: the engine fairings on the S-IC were never ejected. The retrorockets fired, but the fairings themselves were never dislodged. Also, the launch escape system tower was jettisoned well after S-IC sep and skirt sep, once they had reached the fringe of the atmosphere. A ÿрøôøрðтьÑÂÑÂ, I know. But just something to consider in your staging profile.

Edited September 20, 2014 by Jack Wolfe

[RedAV8R]

There were not 3 APS pods. In fact the APS on the SIB and the SV were different.

[Guest]

Now, who asked you to come in here and be all righty-right about things? That's just rude!

You are indeed correct. There were only two APS pods on the Saturn V. Mea culpa to me for a faulty memory.

[DennyTX]

Now, who asked you to come in here and be all righty-right about things? That's just rude!

You are indeed correct. There were only two APS pods on the Saturn V. Mea culpa to me for a faulty memory.

well, so i must do separate meshes for sep engines and APS, right?

[RedAV8R]

Correct, the ullage solid rockets were different and not a part of the APS itself.

[Guest]

S-IVB had two ullage systems, yes. It had three separation/ullage motors, running on solid fuel. They were used to help with S-II/S-IVB separation and ullage the J2 for the orbital insertion. It also had two, much weaker APS modules, which ran on MMH and N2O4. They were used to ullage the J2 engine for TLI, and also contained RCS to control the stage's roll and also pitch and yaw when the engine was off. It was necessary, because the J2 needed to be restarted multiple times, but an ullage engine strong enough to perform the first separation/ullage burn would've increased mass of the whole stage.

Edited September 20, 2014 by Guest

[MaxP]

Guys, tell me please, how to assemble the upper part of Apollo (CM+SM+LM).

The AJ1-137 engine hasn't any bottom attachment node, so it seems there is no way to attach anything below the service module ((

---

For those who have the same problem: first, connect the standard Apollo fairings, then attach the "Apollo CSM and LEM deployment device" to it with assembled LM (from subassemblies).

Edited September 22, 2014 by MaxP

[DennyTX]

right way to assembly LEM CSM pack.

1. start with LEM assembly, use something like probe as first detail.

2. save LEM as subassembly (without first detail).

3. press new and assembly CSM.

4. attatch SLA (it has 3 nodes, top, middle and bottom) to CSM by upper node.

5. open SLA.

6. attach LEM subassembly at second node.

Edited September 22, 2014 by DennyTX

[MaxP]

Thanks, I've done the same.

But I have another questions ))

What is the "Apollo CSM and LEM deployment device", and what it's used for? It's not represented on your video.

And what is LEM Mock-up?

[Reddragon]

Thanks, I've done the same.

But I have another questions ))

What is the "Apollo CSM and LEM deployment device", and what it's used for? It's not represented on your video.

And what is LEM Mock-up?

The LEM mockup is basically a dummy object which was used on the Apollo 8 mission. It's technically not a 'mockup' but a pipe shaped thing that weighted the same as the lander.

[DennyTX]

Thanks, I've done the same.

But I have another questions ))

What is the "Apollo CSM and LEM deployment device", and what it's used for? It's not represented on your video.

And what is LEM Mock-up?

oh yup.

i've used version 2.0, still unpublished. SLA and deployment device has been united to one part. When i solve some question and notes listed above i'll realise it. From one side will be a bit more simple (less parts, but someones wants more part on the contrary ). and more detailed, and will have more dependences

[Guest]

Will you make an SLA with jettisonable panels? The version with hinged panels was used on Saturn IB flights, but was deemed too risky to use by the time of Saturn V. Because of that, Saturn V version of S-IVB used jettisonable panels.