Animated objects and control surfaces.

[Vertibirdo]

Hello everyone!

I have a question, if someone can point me in the right direction.

I am making a set of foldable telescopic wings and engines for aeroplanes and i'm stuck at the point of animating control surfaces. I know, that you cannot attach stuff to animated objects, as that stuff will just hang in the air, when its parent object moves.

So i had an idea to make control surfaces as part of the animated model. The problem is- as soon as i describe control surface in the Unity as obj_ctrlSrf, it breaks its animation. The control surface object hangs in the air, while all other parts behave as they should be.

Is there any trick to make control surfaces move in space? Or is there any way to make the part use two separate models- one with animation, and the one in its "working" state?

Sorry for my poor English.

[The Flitter]

I know almost nothing of modding, but making it so the entire wing acts as a control surface, like a winglet, sounds like a quick fix, but that's just my 2 cents.

[Vertibirdo]

I know almost nothing of modding, but making it so the entire wing acts as a control surface, like a winglet, sounds like a quick fix, but that's just my 2 cents.

Thank you for your answer, but no. Whenever i describe an object as control surface, it cancels any animation, other than animation via key controls in game. So i cannot make it foldable. I guess i should be able to, somehow, make two instances of an object, like one object with custom animation, and another object with control surface animation. But i cannot understand how to make it possible, as i don't even know, where to start and how to make one part consist of several models.

[DaMichel]

Perhaps you could use the Infernal Robotics plugin.

It allows you to attach parts to movable joints, rails and things like that. So my idea is to make a wing setup which uses an IR module for an integrated hinge. Or just model a "stand-alone" hinge.

Not sure if it will work though. IR joints are pretty wobbly. They may not stand the load of a wing. So make a mockup with existing parts.

[Talisar]

You should talk to BahamutoD about this. He recently started a thread in the dev section about a custom plugin for animation modules, and while it doesn't seem to include exactly what you are looking for, he does have a module for engines that have a stowed and a deployed state (which your request brought to mind, as they seem similar)

He also mentioned that he is taking requests for specific animation modules for him to try making, so...

[Vertibirdo]

Perhaps you could use the Infernal Robotics plugin.

It allows you to attach parts to movable joints, rails and things like that. So my idea is to make a wing setup which uses an IR module for an integrated hinge. Or just model a "stand-alone" hinge.

Not sure if it will work though. IR joints are pretty wobbly. They may not stand the load of a wing. So make a mockup with existing parts.

Unfortunately i don't quite understand what do you mean. I want to make a stand-alone part, not dependant on other plugins.

Or do you mean to try to use infernal robotics dll?

You should talk to BahamutoD about this. He recently started a thread in the dev section about a custom plugin for animation modules, and while it doesn't seem to include exactly what you are looking for, he does have a module for engines that have a stowed and a deployed state (which your request brought to mind, as they seem similar)

He also mentioned that he is taking requests for specific animation modules for him to try making, so...

Thank you very much, maybe he will at least give me some advices =)

Still no time is wasted, as i can work on texturing, while trying to solve control surface problem =)

[Dr. Jet]

Foldable wings? Excellent idea!

As for inbuilt control surfaces - I advice you to look at Firespitter addon. It does have em implemented already.

[Justin Kerbice]

Perhaps you could use the Infernal Robotics plugin.

It allows you to attach parts to movable joints, rails and things like that. So my idea is to make a wing setup which uses an IR module for an integrated hinge. Or just model a "stand-alone" hinge.

Sorry to be a bit off-topic, DaMichel: have you any link or info on how to do this ? I check the release thread as well as the mod + source, no docs and looking at IR parts, there is no clue on what the plug-in need to make this work.

It's quite a shame there is no way to attach parts on moving thing with stock KSP.

[Vertibirdo]

Foldable wings? Excellent idea!

As for inbuilt control surfaces - I advice you to look at Firespitter addon. It does have em implemented already.

Unfrotunately i am too dumb to be able to use firespitter dll, but BahamutoD gave me a nice idea. I'll see how it works out.

[Vertibirdo]

The question is solved, thanks to BahamutoD.

I have made a dummy object in 3d max, which controls the whole animation, leaving other objects clean of it. Oh, what unlimited possibilities that can bring... Now i have another problem, but that's a matter of another discussion.

Thread can be closed, thanks, all of you!

[DaMichel]

Just a sec ..

@Vertibirdo & Justin Kerbice: No cook book recipe here. It would need some research and probably help from the Infernal Robotics devs. And yes i thought about using the stuff in the InfernalRobotics Dll. I just looked at the IR part definition and i'm also confused because there is no module reference in there, just plain parameters ...

Edited March 7, 2014 by DaMichel

[Vertibirdo]

Just a sec ..

@Vertibirdo & Justin Kerbice: No cook book recipe here. It would need some research and probably help from the Infernal Robotics devs. And yes i thought about using the stuff in the InfernalRobotics Dll. I just looked at the IR part definition and i'm also confused because there is no module reference in there, just plain parameters ...

Not an issue anymore, there is a simple workaround, which i have described. It is always nice, when there is a "stock" solution available. I want to make a stand-alone mod, not dependable on other mods.

[Justin Kerbice]

Not an issue anymore, there is a simple workaround, which i have described. It is always nice, when there is a "stock" solution available. I want to make a stand-alone mod, not dependable on other mods.

I have made a dummy object in 3d max, which controls the whole animation, leaving other objects clean of it. Oh, what unlimited possibilities that can bring... Now i have another problem, but that's a matter of another discussion.

Not really helpful to people who will face the same problem, could you be more specific, as there is a lot's of way to add a "dummy object which control the whole animation" and more importantly how to deal with it after and the other objects/parts involved and do the job in Unity. Maybe I don't see the trick here but I have some doubts on how to make this works, so thanks to explain a bit more.

(I've seen too much people on these forums says "oohh it's ok now I did this and that it's easy" and ? no real added value without some explanations).

[Vertibirdo]

Not really helpful to people who will face the same problem, could you be more specific, as there is a lot's of way to add a "dummy object which control the whole animation" and more importantly how to deal with it after and the other objects/parts involved and do the job in Unity. Maybe I don't see the trick here but I have some doubts on how to make this works, so thanks to explain a bit more.

(I've seen too much people on these forums says "oohh it's ok now I did this and that it's easy" and ? no real added value without some explanations).

Sorry, as i said, i am pretty bad at English.

At first i made custom animations for all objects in the model. So when i told Unity to count some object as control surface, it was breaking its custom imported animation.

Control surfaces have their own animations, which are built-in. The built-in animation was "overwriting" the prefab animation.

So i have made an empty, non-renderable object (3d max dummy object), which i linked to my control surface part as the parent object.

Child object (control surface) movement animation is controlled through the parent object (dummy object). The child object therefore has no animation of its own, so Unity doesn't break it.

[Justin Kerbice]

Sorry, as i said, i am pretty bad at English.

At first i made custom animations for all objects in the model. So when i told Unity to count some object as control surface, it was breaking its custom imported animation.

Control surfaces have their own animations, which are built-in. The built-in animation was "overwriting" the prefab animation.

So i have made an empty, non-renderable object (3d max dummy object), which i linked to my control surface part as the parent object.

Child object (control surface) movement animation is controlled through the parent object (dummy object). The child object therefore has no animation of its own, so Unity doesn't break it.

I see. Thanks for the details.

Sadely for me, and luckily for you, it's not the same case, as I just have concern regarding attaching part to an animated one in the VAB/SPH (and for the record, the attach nodes and probably the collider object don't physically follow the animation, leading the animated part to be merged in the connected parts). Don't know if it's just a design limitation or a Unity 4.3.3 "mysterious" issue, as some claim it's has some without telling anything about this alleged fact.

[Vertibirdo]

I see. Thanks for the details.

Sadely for me, and luckily for you, it's not the same case, as I just have concern regarding attaching part to an animated one in the VAB/SPH (and for the record, the attach nodes and probably the collider object don't physically follow the animation, leading the animated part to be merged in the connected parts). Don't know if it's just a design limitation or a Unity 4.3.3 "mysterious" issue, as some claim it's has some without telling anything about this alleged fact.

Um... you want to attach object to another object, which has moving animation? AFAIK it is impossible, unless someone manages to make a script, which dynamically alters connection nodes and object relevant coordinates (I have totally no idea, how that's possible, because attachment rules and nodes are loaded from .cfg files on game startup and are stored in the memory).

Also regarding colliders- they do move with the animated objects, as that kind of stuff led to some pretty magnificient explosions, while i was testing my part.