Warp bubbles within warp bubbles within warp bubbles.

[FREEFALL1984]

So I read a different thread which inspired me to ask this and though that this might be more sensible to post on its own...

So the warp bubble is essentially compressing space in front of it and stretching space behind is, inside the bubble there must be space for the vessel.

Is it therefor not theoretically possible to create elongated warp bubbles (dozens of light years long) which can be traversed internally by another elongated warp bubble which can be traversed internally too by yet another elongated warp bubble and inside that there is a ship...

Here's a thought experiment, imagine for a moment that the speed of light is reduced to 15mph, you're on an enclosed deck of a container ship which is moving at 8mph, in that container ship there is a lorry, the lorry is moving at 8mph along the enclosed deck of the ship from the back to front (silly I know) inside that lorry there is a car moving at 8mph also from back to front, inside the car a fly travels from the back of the car to the front of the car at 8mph, because everything is moving slower than 15mph, the laws of physics are being obeyed, but in reality the fly is moving at more than twice the speed of light relative to the ocean. Each of these vehicles, (ship truck and car) is essentially a warp bubble and the fly is Jeb Kerman. In fact there could potentially be thousands or millions of warp bubbles all mere millimeters thick allowing the vessel to travel at almost (but not quite) infinite speeds from A-B yet the bubbles themselves would only be moving a fraction of the speed of light.

Please discuss.

[Wahgineer]

While possible, you forgot several things:

1.) The warp bubble idea is technically allowed by the theory of relativity.

2.) A ship with in a warp bubble with in a warp bubble would smash into the front end of the exterior warp bubble, destabilizing both bubbles and destroying the ship.

[FREEFALL1984]

While possible, you forgot several things:

1.) The warp bubble idea is technically allowed by the theory of relativity.

2.) A ship with in a warp bubble with in a warp bubble would smash into the front end of the exterior warp bubble, destabilizing both bubbles and destroying the ship.

The outer warp bubble would be elongated to cover half the distance the target, the warp bubble inside it would be half the length of the first and all subsequent warp bubbles within would be half the size of their parent bubble, each bubble would move half the speed of the parent bubble, that way all bubbles would be moving at the same speed relative to each other and the when the ship reaches its destination all bubbles could be collapsed and no bubbles would interfere with each other.

[Winter Man]

You could, but it'd be pointless. You'd need to construct such an enormous ship to create the first bubble, you'd be better off just sitting in that. You're only going to get to your destination when the largest bubble gets there anyway.

That and 'half the distance to the target' for anything remotely interstellar is so ridiculously enormous you'd need galaxy-scale mass/energy.

[Dispatcher]

Using an analogy of soap bubbles in air, or air bubbles in water, these appear to not contain interior bubbles. Would there be any advantage gained in having warp bubbles within warp bubbles?

[FREEFALL1984]

You could, but it'd be pointless. You'd need to construct such an enormous ship to create the first bubble, you'd be better off just sitting in that. You're only going to get to your destination when the largest bubble gets there anyway.

That and 'half the distance to the target' for anything remotely interstellar is so ridiculously enormous you'd need galaxy-scale mass/energy.

Of course, the energy required would be unimaginable, but I believe it could be possible theoretically speaking of course.

[Winter Man]

Of course, the energy required would be unimaginable, but I believe it could be possible theoretically speaking of course.

You're ignoring the first bit, where it's pointless.

[Mazon Del]

Honestly the two likeliest scenarios from trying to have a ship generate onioned warp bubbles ends up being:

A: The warp bubbles simply add to become one more powerful bubble that may be less efficiently generated then just making an engine that makes one bigger bubble.

B: The ship simply moves the speed of the faster warp bubble.

While yes, if you somehow took a device and made a massive light years long warp bubble, and you had a smaller (but separate!) ship inside this warp bubble activate its own bubble, you could possibly have a multiplier (going 10c within a space moving at 10c I believe should multiply, not add.) the energy cost of the first bubble is so large, that you would probably be better off just taking that energy and making a single bubble fast enough to equal the 100c speed.

The reason why the two bubbles need to be generated from different systems is that if you have two generators on the same ship, then when you make the onioned shells, the outside one is moving relative to outside space. The inside one is NOT moving relative to the outside shell. This is because both shells are generated from the same point in space (your ship) so you would never have any difference in speed. Incidentally, trying to onion your shells is an interesting technical problem, primarily because the actual boundary of your shell will probably be warped space that would rip apart any structure you tried to poke out of it. So both your engines end up being in the central shell, which results in the warping effects basically occupying the same space. Shifting the 'warp emitters' away from each other just ends up changing the space of your field, but any speed boost you gain is likely to be additive as you are just doubling (if using two of the same engine) the warp output.

[Dispatcher]

Would the "speed" of a space warp bubble even make sense, relative to the the speed of light (i.e. the mentions of 10c and 100c, etc.)? Or is a warp factor (unlike that of Star Trek) rather a measurement of the size or intensity of the warp?

[Mazon Del]

The speed (10c, 100c, etc) is a measurable quantity and is more useful (sort of) than a measurement of the size/intensity of a warp. The size/intensity allows you to derive things like speed and power, but the speed is quite necessary for things like navigation. Of course, the trick is that with the ship itself, it can only really guess how fast it is moving (compared to an outside point of view) based on how much power it is throwing into the engines. So in a way, the size/intensity are important BECAUSE they let you calculate speed.

Incidentally the warp factor of Star Trek assumes a physics system that there is no evidence exists when it comes to real life warp tech. The whole factor 1-10, is a power vs speed chart with exponentially more power required to gain more speed until you reach an asymtote of infinite power (beyond which the power draw drops to next to nothing, allowing transwarp infinite speeds). Currently there is no indication that the power/speed relationship of real warp tech is anything but linear (IE, doubling the power should double the speed assuming the volume remains the same).

[LawnDartLeo]

Is it a bubble or a wave?

My understanding is that warp travel is more like cosmic surfing, a ripple in space where you surf down the wave with a trough in front (pull) and a peak behind (push).

[Mazon Del]

Technically both. You are outputting waves of energy/gravity/space-bendy-ness, but because the effect is in all three dimensions and because there are somewhat clear transition boundaries, it is described as a bubble.

[Ralathon]

Isn't there also the issue that you have to project a warp bubble outside your primary warp bubble? If I recall correctly the front of the warp bubble acts as event horizon, so its utterly impossible to send any kind of signal to trigger the outer warp bubble.

[vger]

I see the same limitations with that as I would if I was trying to create a wave within a wave on a surface of water. Yeah you 'could', but what would be the point? Once you hit equilibrium between the 'crest' and 'trough,' of the wave, wouldn't it become counterproductive? And that's assuming your vessel didn't get immediately torn apart like a flimsy aircraft breaking the sound barrier. You'd reach a point where your inner bubble would collide with the outer bubble. yeah, scratching my head here on what you're visualizing.