TYLO SSTO - To Tylo and Back in an SSTO (video)

[Andrew Hansen]

What I've always considered the "final frontier" of SSTOs is one that can fly to Tylo and back without refueling. Obviously, of course, this is very hard to do - but it is possible. You're likely going to want to use a nuclear engine for the burn to Jool and the capture around Tylo. You might think the 48-7S engine is most efficient when landing on Tylo, but according to this chart, the LV-N is the most efficient engine to use with a Delta-V requirement of 5000 m/s, a TWR requirement of 0.8, and a payload (not including fuel tank mass) of over 2 tons.

You need 8,670 m/s of Delta-V to fly to Tylo and return (excluding 4,500 m/s to take off from Kerbin, as that's provided by jet engines). The maximum delta-V you can get from the LV-N is 17,244 m/s, but that's assuming no TWR constraint. With a TWR constraint of 1 (Kerbin's gravity), the maximum delta-V is only 6,477. Unfortunately I don't know what it would be at 0.8 TWR. I suspect it would be close to 6,477, and I highly doubt it would be more than 8,670. Either way, the margins are too slim. And of course this is assuming that 100% of your ship is fuel.

So, I decided to use a small detachable lander to actually land and return from Tylo's surface. The lander would then fly back into orbit, redock with the spaceplane, and it would return to Kerbin. After many design iterations, I present to you the... Tylo SSTO (creative, eh?)!

This plane can go to every planet and moon and back (not at the same time, obviously) except for Eve.

• Both of Kerbin's moons (in the same mission)
  
• Gilly (of course)
  
• Moho (if you encounter it on its ascending/descending nodes)
  
• Duna and Ike (in the same mission)
  
• Dres (piece of cake)
  
• All of Jool's moons (not in the same mission )
  
• Eeloo (again, a piece of cake)
  

And here's a video showing a mission to Tylo and back in this SSTO.

Download the Tylo SSTO!

Edited May 26, 2014 by Andrew Hansen

[Andrew Hansen]

Currently, the COM shift (even though it's 0.02 meters) is enough to cause quite a bit of torque difference between when the craft is loaded full or fuel or when its empty. I am going to update the craft file with balance improvements on the engines and less COM shift.

[Andrew Hansen]

OK, the craft file is now updated. The nuclear engine on the front now produces no more than 0.19 units of torque either when dry or when empty. The jet engines produce no more than 3 units of torque (it's hard to get it reduced further than that because of how much thrust they produce). I also added intakes to the fuel tanks on the wings, like I did in the tutorial. Lastly, I changed the order of the action groups to be the same as in the tutorial (and updated the description of course).

Happy flying! Let me know how you like the craft, and if you have any ideas for improvements.

[Overfloater]

Very nice!

I once saw this kind of craft, by Mesklin, also a SSTO that carries a tiny lander with an atomic motor that lands on Tylo and returns to it. I'm very sorry I can't watch your videos yet, as I'm in the exact middle of nowhere for the next couple of weeks... I can barely even view pictures x^D

It always excites me to see interplanetary SSTO's, especially on challenging missions of that sort!

[Andrew Hansen]

Very nice!

Thanks!

I once saw this kind of craft, by Mesklin, also a SSTO that carries a tiny lander with an atomic motor that lands on Tylo and returns to it.

Wow! Sounds cool! I know I got the idea from someone on the Internet, but no one had made a video of it, so I decided I'd try make one myself. I couldn't find the Imgur album that inspired me to create the craft, so I ended up having to test out designs myself until I found out what worked.

It's interesting that Mesklin used the nuclear engine for his lander. Referencing the old chart in my original post, the 48-7S engine is slightly better than the nuclear engine with a Delta-V requirement of 5,000 m/s and a payload of under 0.3 tonnes. If I do the math, the Kerbal's weight along with the command seat, probe core, docking port, battery, solar panels, and landing legs is 0.09 + 0.05 + 0.04 + 0.02 + 0.02 + (0.005 × 2) + (0.015 × 4) = 0.29. Even though the nuclear engine would get about the same amount of delta-V with the fuel I used for my lander, it would result in a much heavier lander. If you used a command pod for the lander, then a nuclear engine would make sense.

It always excites me to see interplanetary SSTO's, especially on challenging missions of that sort!

Me too! SSTOs add so much to the game. From your signature, I can see you're really into them! I love your Astroliner V - Mega Comet so much that I decided to subscribe.

Edited April 16, 2014 by Andrew Hansen

[The Destroyer]

Very cool! Very much. I like it.

[Redshift OTF]

Awesome stuff! Some nice ideas there. Regarding the battery I think it is massless so I don't think it balances out the docking port.

It's interesting that Mesklin used the nuclear engine for his lander. Referencing the old chart in my original post, the 48-7S engine is slightly better than the nuclear engine with a Delta-V requirement of 5,000 m/s and a payload of under 0.3 tonnes. If I do the math, the Kerbal's weight along with the command seat, probe core, docking port, battery, solar panels, and landing legs is 0.09 + 0.05 + 0.04 + 0.02 + 0.02 + (0.005 × 2) + (0.015 × 4) = 0.29. Even though the nuclear engine would get about the same amount of delta-V with the fuel I used for my lander, it would result in a much heavier lander. If you used a command pod for the lander, then a nuclear engine would make sense.

Meskalin's nuclear lander was also the nuclear engine for the SSTO and when it returned to the plane it re-docked and propelled the plane home using the planes fuel. It was a very clever idea IMO.

[Andrew Hansen]

Awesome stuff! Some nice ideas there. Regarding the battery I think it is massless so I don't think it balances out the docking port.

Yeah... I was quite disappointed to learn that this was a new feature/bug that was implemented in 0.23. I added an annotation to my video explaining my mistake.

Mesklin's nuclear lander was also the nuclear engine for the SSTO and when it returned to the plane it re-docked and propelled the plane home using the planes fuel. It was a very clever idea IMO.

Wow! That's brilliant! Very, very clever indeed. Would anyone mind sharing a link to this famous SSTO? Searching on Google for "Mesklin Tylo SSTO" doesn't yield anything particularly helpful.

[Mesklin]

Are there somebody talking about me ? Andrew, here is link to my craft for Tylo with similar design. And you are right, Tylo lander with 48-7S engine is lighter and more easy for control then atomic lander, my lander weight is 7.3 t, dV is ~6300 m/s and starting TWR on Tylo - 1.05. It was not easy landing, I lost Jeb in time of learning proccess as minimum 10 times

[Redshift OTF]

Sorry, I spelt his name wrong. But there he is.

[Andrew Hansen]

Are there somebody talking about me ? Andrew, here is link to my craft for Tylo with similar design. And you are right, Tylo lander with 48-7S engine is lighter and more easy for control then atomic lander, my lander weight is 7.3 t, dV is ~6300 m/s and starting TWR on Tylo - 1.05. It was not easy landing, I lost Jeb in time of learning proccess as minimum 10 times

Wow! Very good! Yes, landing on Tylo is quite difficult.... The two keys are flying as low as you can and keeping your vertical descent to a minimum. Also, I'm really impressed by your Jool-5 Kethane Version accomplishment. Good job!

[Andrew Hansen]

This might be sort of relevant....

I created a new stock repository to replace the old one. I think your craft, Mesklin, deserves to be there. If you can upload a .craft file, I can put your craft in the repository.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Andrew Hansen

[Pds314]

I wonder if this could reach Eeloo? Even if just orbit.

Better yet, I wonder if it could land and return, after all, it takes something like a 1 km/s delta-v to get into LTO, that is more than Eeloo's escape velocity!

[Andrew Hansen]

I wonder if this could reach Eeloo? Even if just orbit.

Better yet, I wonder if it could land and return, after all, it takes something like a 1 km/s delta-v to get into LTO, that is more than Eeloo's escape velocity!

I just did the calculations, and it takes 8,110 m/s to go to Eeloo and back (including plane changes both ways), starting from orbit around Kerbin. Going to Tylo and back takes 9,210 (if you include both plane changes). So this plane can totally go to Eeloo and back.

I was curious if it could make it to Moho and back, and... amazingly, yes - if you exclude the plane change (which can go up to 2520 m/s). Doing so requires 7,400 m/s. If you encounter Moho on its ascending or descending node (or the plane change is small), this plane could make it to Moho and back without a problem. Adding maximum plane changes both ways results in a very scary 12,440 m/s, which this plane can't handle.

After doing some more calculations, I found it can go to every planet and moon and back, besides Eve of course.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Andrew Hansen

[Andrew Hansen]

Update: 415 views on my "Tylo Delivery Plane" video! Thanks everyone! Since I haven't actually made a video of it going to Tylo and back, I think I'll do that next - and perhaps go to Moho, Eeloo, and other planets and back while I'm at it. This SSTO deserves a true video in my opinion.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Andrew Hansen

[Andrew Hansen]

I know this thread is old, but I'm not necro-posting, because it makes more sense to just update this thread than start a new one.

Here's my promised video! This craft has flown to Tylo and back, and I recorded it on tape! More like a file, but whatever.

With this comes some new updates - more balanced lander, ladders on both the airplane and the Tylo lander, and unlocked front-wheel steering.

[Jamie Logan]

Amazing!!!! I recently got into long-range SSTO's, and all I've managed is one that can land on the Mun and Minmus in a single go, but this blows mine away!!! Rep for you good sir.

[Andrew Hansen]

<snip>

Congratulations on your Mun/Minmus SSTO! That is a great accomplishment. With perseverance comes better SSTOs. And of course, this one's secret is its lander.

Thanks for the reputation!

[Michaelo90]

And I'm struggling to build one that can get to minmus and back...

[Andrew Hansen]

And I'm struggling to build one that can get to minmus and back...

Don't you worry! You're ahead of the engineers on Earth! Just remember that smaller is better.