Can NASA use KSP algorithms?[Discussion Thread]

[TYRT]

Hi all! Can NASA use KSP algorithms, codes or whatever, for their maneuvers, launchs etc.

I think KSP algorithms -or whatever- works well on game. Maybe on their supercomputer?

Sorry for bad English, waiting for your comments

[Kasuha]

NASA most likely does not use any of KSP proprietary code. Some approaches may be similar, for instance ship path modelling using patched conics approximation is sometimes used in initial phases of spacecraft mission planning, if the mission does not involve N-body gravitational effects such as lagrangian points. But in final phases full N-body simulation is a must.

[pauix]

Hi all! Can NASA use KSP algorithms, codes or whatever, for their maneuvers, launchs etc.

I think KSP algorithms -or whatever- works well on game. Maybe on their supercomputer?

Sorry for bad English, waiting for your comments

The algorithms KSP are an approximation that works fine in a game, but I'm not sure that they would work in real life, specially in places where there are a lot of celestial bodies (Jupiter and Saturn, for example) because of the way it calculates the gravitational forces.

[Sof]

I'm sure NASA made their own special version of KSP

[Hotblack Desiato]

as the others said, for trajectory calculatons, KSP is useless. N-body problem.

hoewever, there is a part, where nasa could and should use KSP. last time I saw a nasa start (maven), they switched pretty soon to their own spaceship-animation (where they can see if the engine is firing or the fairing is attached/separating, and so on). that graphic was nice, when it was invented, but now it is a pretty simple, old and featureless graphic. they could switch to ksp to visualize the start.

basically, they just need to make 3D-models of their spacecraft for unity (or convert them, since they generate those models anyway.

I guess, there could be even a way to project the launch-telemetry into a KSP-RSS instance.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Hotblack Desiato

[Decho]

What NASA uses: http://gmat.gsfc.nasa.gov/ I've been using it for parts of my MSc (Uranus transfer orbits specifically)

[InterCity]

I think the main purpose of ARM was to find out players' approach on the problem.

So yes, I think KSP may be useful for NASA, although they're not using enough of it

[rkman]

as the others said, for trajectory calculatons, KSP is useless. N-body problem.

The KSP approach (patched conics) was good enough for the Apollo program, but nowadays NASA even takes Relativity into account when they calculate trajectories.

..they switched pretty soon to their own spaceship-animation (where they can see if the engine is firing or the fairing is attached/separating, and so on). that graphic was nice, when it was invented, but now it is a pretty simple, old and featureless graphic. they could switch to ksp to visualize the start.

Or they could use (as they sometimes do) their own "Eyes on the Solar system" software, which looks better than KSP. On the other hand, NASA mission control is not the NASA public relations department so looking good visually is not a concern for them.

[Dedjal]

on the topic of using ksp arm to see how the player base would tackle the problem, may i shamefully suggest my project:

capture asteroids into lko. Outfit 'em with solar panels and microwave transmitters and setting 'em up into a dyson sphere?

I know you want to, nasa

[LameLefty]

hoewever, there is a part, where nasa could and should use KSP. last time I saw a nasa start (maven), they switched pretty soon to their own spaceship-animation (where they can see if the engine is firing or the fairing is attached/separating, and so on). that graphic was nice, when it was invented, but now it is a pretty simple, old and featureless graphic. they could switch to ksp to visualize the start.

basically, they just need to make 3D-models of their spacecraft for unity (or convert them, since they generate those models anyway.

I guess, there could be even a way to project the launch-telemetry into a KSP-RSS instance.

Um, no. The "spaceship-animation" is nearly always STK (Satellite Toolkit), an industry standard and extremely detailed/reliable tool for real life space mission planning and simulation. Quality of the graphics are ENTIRELY secondary to the purpose of the software.

http://www.agi.com/products/

Good news is there's a free, stripped-down version to try if you want to pretend to be a real rocket scientist.

[cantab]

Yeah, NASA basically solved these problems ages ago. And will have something similar to the trajectory optimiser program developed for KSP.

In fact a neat project would be to interface NASA's "real" tools to KSP (or Orbiter).

[Red Iron Crown]

I think the main purpose of ARM was to find out players' approach on the problem.

So yes, I think KSP may be useful for NASA, although they're not using enough of it

Clearly NASA was crowdsourcing asteroid redirect designs. I hear their Massive Orbital Adjustment Rocket will be based on KSP technology. Look for lots of struts and boosters.

[gchristopher]

Um, no. The "spaceship-animation" is nearly always STK (Satellite Toolkit), an industry standard and extremely detailed/reliable tool for real life space mission planning and simulation. Quality of the graphics are ENTIRELY secondary to the purpose of the software.

http://www.agi.com/products/

Good news is there's a free, stripped-down version to try if you want to pretend to be a real rocket scientist.

Yep, the STK software is commonly used by Universities and amateurs to plan satellite missions.

Even planning an orbit around Earth has a lot of details to consider, all needing good orbital calculations. Your power budget will likely depend on ability to keep solar panels aimed at the sun, when the sun is available. Magnetic attitude control systems need to know how your orbit will interact with the Earth's magnetic field. Thermal modeling is a huge issue, so you need to know how long you're in sun and shadow, and an estimate of how much radiation is coming from what direction.

That's one area where we get really lucky! It turns out that if you toss a small lump of aluminum, fiberglass and copper into Low Earth Orbit, without much in the way of active thermal management, it tends to stay within -40 to 120F, where electronics mostly keep working. A typical cell phone will probably continue to function in space (except for the display) as long as you strap on a heater to the battery and some solar cells. There's actually been a couple satellites built around that cheap idea, not sure if any like that are in orbit right now.

That's all stuff that's way beyond KSP, but will be components of a real-world mission planning software suite.

[Pwnstarr]

lol, maybe when KSP can calculate orbits like this

:

[R0cketC0der]

lol, maybe when KSP can calculate orbits like this

:

http://i.imgur.com/4YPogQg.jpg

It can calculate orbits similar to that. The only thing not possible in ksp which the ISEE-3 probe used are Lagrange points, which would require N-Body physics in ksp.

[problemecium]

I think the main purpose of ARM was to find out players' approach on the problem.

I look forward to seeing NASA land asteroids next to Kennedy Space Center using buttloads of parachutes and jury-rigged airplane wings ;P

[Skyler4856]

Yeah while the lack of n-body physics is certainly an issue, so is the lack of other extraneous forces, such as radiation pressure