Strategies for MPL-LG-2 and other parts

[Kulebron]

I did not touch science since 0.22, so now things really changed, and I have questions.

1. Why do Goo and instrument modules become inoperable? What's the sense behind this? Just to force us using the MPL?

2. I made most of the tech tree, and still see no use for MPL. I have a standard ship that brings 300 science points from Mün in every mission. I will run out of biomes soon, but how do you use MPL in interplanetary missions? Isn't it more benefitial to send a pack of probes and return them, rather than lose science points in processing?

In 0.23, stock science became really meaningful, it was a pleasure to play.

Edited May 15, 2014 by Kulebron

[Jimbimbibble]

You will notice that returning a single experiment now gives you a much larger percentage of total science. After returning 2 goos or bays you will have maxed it. Also, you can now remove science from your sensors and store it in your command pod. As a result, they had to make it inoperable after removal or transmitting to balance the game. The purpose of the mpl is to clean out your experiments so they can be used again. You can put an mpl in orbit around the mun with a fuel tank, then run back and forth with your lander, refueling the lander and cleaning the experiments. It allows you to get half the biomes in a single launch.

[cantab]

The lab is indeed a bit iffy. It can work out lighter to just pack multiple Goo and Materials bays. However, it does make viable an approach of run experiment, transmit, clean, run again, store. That gives you science now rather than having to wait for the mission return.

The biggest benefit though IMHO is that it can store multiple runs of the same experiment in the same setting, which you need for most to max out the science. Pods can't store such repeat experiments, unless you take multiple, but then you start to get heavier than the lab. Just be careful on landing, the lab's fragile.

You could also try it on a Kerballed one-way mission, but for most places the weight is probably better used to do an ultralight return mission.

[Geschosskopf]

I did not touch science since 0.22, so now things really changed, and I have questions.

1. Why do Goo and instrument modules become inoperable? What's the sense behind this? Just to force us using the MPL?

The purpose is to prevent transmission spamming of the same experiment over and over to get all the points with very little actual effort. And in addition to these parts becoming inoperable after transmitting, for most experiment types you can only get a max of 40% of the total points via transmission. The idea behind all this was to force you to return experiments for full analysis on Kerbin. The mobile lab is there to make this a bit more feasible.

2. I made most of the tech tree, and still see no use for MPL. I have a standard ship that brings 300 science points from Mün in every mission. I will run out of biomes soon, but how do you use MPL in interplanetary missions? Isn't it more benefitial to send a pack of probes and return them, rather than lose science points in processing?

Here is an example of the mobile lab in use at Minmus:

Pillaging Minmus

What this allowed me to do was get ALL the remaining points from Minmus in 1 trip. And it took WAY less play time doing it this way than if I'd done 5 individual lander launches and returns, and was thus very much more fun with less of a grindy feel.

I have also done very similar things on interplanetary trips. Even without biomes on Duna and Ike, there are still 8 places to get data there:

• high Duna orbit
  
• low Duna orbit
  
• upper atmosphere of Duna
  
• flying over Duna
  
• surface of Duna
  
• high Ike orbit
  
• low Ike orbit
  
• surface of Ike
  

If you don't use the Mobile Lab, then you need 8 sets of 4 each Goos and Materials to gather all the points from the Duna system (plus 1 each of all the resusable instruments). But OTOH, a ship with the same general concept as that shown in the thread above can do the whole thing by itself, plus pick up "high orbit over the sun" en route if you hadn't gotten that already. It would go like this:

1. Leave Kerbin's SOI, get high solar orbit data. Use Mobile Lab to store these data and rearm the Goos and Materials. This use of the Mobile Lab occurs after each use of Science! parts in the rest of this list.
   
2. Enter Duna's SOI, get high Duna orbit data.
   
3. Aerocapture at Duna with an Ap that puts you out towards Ike. Get low Duna orbit data while you're doing this.
   
4. Enter Ike's SOI, get high Ike orbit data.
   
5. Settle in to LIO, get that data.
   
6. Land on Ike, get Ike surface data.
   
7. Lander returns to mothership, mothership moves to LDO.
   
8. Lander makes 1st of 3 descents to Duna, getting surface data. This pays the most and later trips might fail so get this first.
   
9. Lander makes 2nd descent, getting "flying over Duna" while hanging on parachutes at low altitude. Finishes landing and comes back.
   
10. Lander makes 3rd descent, getting upper atmosphere of Duna data early in re-entry and either finishing landing or aborting back to orbit.
    
11. Entire ship returns to Kerbin and the lab separates and comes down to land. Needs enough chutes to land at < 4m/s so it's usually best to put legs on it.
    

Anyway, I find the lab utterly necessary for interplanetary science trips because it prevents me from having to lug out countless Goos and Materials. And the more planets end up with biomes, the more necessary the Mobile Lab will become. Closer to home, it's also handy for breaking up the monotony of grinding out Mun and Minmus biomes.

[G'th]

With budgets you'll be more inclined to spend the money on the lab rather than several sets of what will likely be very expensive science experiments.

[MKI]

@ Geschosskopf

I actually didn't know it would be worth it to bring to extra planetary systems. I knew the Kerbin moons were a good place to bring it. I guess i never just did the math.

And i agree with G'th, the more planets that get biomes, the more and more relavant the lab will be. Throw in the single cost of a reusable science system and the lab will be a critical function of the space programs science division.

[Kulebron]

@ Geschosskopf

Very useful, thanks!

[Kulebron]

I did this lab as Geschosskopf, and indeed it took a big rocket to launch it and another one with fuel resupply. I did as many landings as I had patience for, and returned 2200 science points from Kerbin.

I think it must have saved some time, compared to individual missions Kerbin-Mun-Kerbin, as you save several atmospheric ascents and parachute descents, stages that you can't warp through.

The interesting part was actually planning the whole station and launching it. These shuttle missions became boring at some point. But overall I like that it makes sense to build the station.

I wish there were other viable strategies, like -- if prices mattered -- rovers that could go to different biomes and get data. This could make sense on remote planets like Laythe or Tylo.