Yuegong-1 manned test

[xenomorph555]

According to Chinese scientists, the Chinese have tested yuegong-1 (moon palace).

The yuegong is a large cylinder module that could potentially lead the way to space station modules or a small moon base. It is separated into 3 sections, crew cabin, farm/bio section and experiments. It can be sealed of completely and sustain life due to it's incredible life support system recycling air, water and other waste. It is described as a mini ecosystem. It can grow lots of food such as fruit, veg and insects.

As for the test, 3 volunteers were sealed inside for 105 days without any resupply and had to live of the grown food, recycled air and water.

Pretty cool, seems like their making very quick progress. I predict some of this technology will be filtered into the Chinese mir class station.

[Red Iron Crown]

How big is the cylinder? Closed system support for three people for 105 days is an impressive claim, I always thought a fairly large space would be required.

I'm also never sure how large a grain of salt is needed with China's PR. They're no North Korea, but sometimes their reports seem a bit disconnected with reality.

[xenomorph555]

How big is the cylinder? Closed system support for three people for 105 days is an impressive claim, I always thought a fairly large space would be required.

I'm also never sure how large a grain of salt is needed with China's PR. They're no North Korea, but sometimes their reports seem a bit disconnected with reality.

It's 500 cubic metres, so it will definitely need to be reduced. It's mainly a test bed for advanced life support.

I believe it is real since it's not too hard what they are doing and they have money. Plus a few high tier russian scientists came to look.

EDIT: sorry the complex is 500 cubic metres, not sure what the cylinder is.

Edited May 21, 2014 by xenomorph555

[Red Iron Crown]

Is there a link to a news story or something where you're getting your info?

500m³ is equivalent to a cube with edges almost 8m long. Large for something going to space, but almost absurdly small for a closed ecosystem. I wonder how they're doing it, and if it is sustainable for a longer period or indefinitely.

[xenomorph555]

I forgot where the original article was, a large chinese site I believe, however many other sites, including foreign sites have started talking about it. Just type in yuegong 1.

As for size my only answer is new advancing technology, china does have the worlds fastest super computer, it wouldn't surprise me if they managed this. As for your final question on if it could last longer I would say yes with development, this was the first test. They started developing in 2004 and by 2012 they managed to sustain a bio system for 30 days with people inside.

Edited May 21, 2014 by xenomorph555

[NASAFanboy]

I'm also never sure how large a grain of salt is needed with China's PR. They're no North Korea, but sometimes their reports seem a bit disconnected with reality.

When you consider they stole footage off Top Gun to advertise their fighter jets, this is rather tame.

Frankly, I have a hard time believing any sources that are from within the state-owned Chinese media, which is somewhat notorious for spewing propaganda. Unless another source such as Space.com, Popular Science, the Washington Post, the Daily Mail just to name a few, unless any if them report this, it is most likely more propaganda (And if they did provide opinions, take multiple sources. News nowadays is pretty biased and opinionated.).

Also, the Chinese space program only has 1.3 billion dollars USD in funding(Source: Asia Times) most of whih are dedicated to the current 2020 station program and the Chang'e Missions. And thus, I have doubts whether they really have the funds.

I would be very, very surprised if they developed this/ very, very disappointed in the United States if they didn't catch up in a short time.

EDIT: Read a article, and it looks like a repeat of the American Biosphere 2, but with 21st Century technology. Hopefully this gets Congress some common sense to give NASA a couple more billion dollars for FY 2016.

While I believe that it is real, I think the claims are being exaggerated a bit.

Edited May 21, 2014 by NASAFanboy

[Scotius]

I would like to know which species of plants Chinese used to grow food. They'd have to be incredibly productive to feed two grown men from such a small area.

[Dkmdlb]

Bamboo of course!

[vger]

"It is described as a mini ecosystem."

I'm more than a bit skeptical of this, considering that we're talking about a 'module.' Something that can be launched in a rocket.

That would require some pretty darned rapid food growth, to say nothing about how it's handling air-processing. If it's making its own O2, it's definitely not using the plants to do it.

Finally, if you want to get a little background on this type of thing, take a look at the biodome experiments. That'll give you an idea of just how tricky this sort of thing would be. And compared to a space module, that biodome was HUGE and still had a lot of problems. On such a smaller scale, those problems would become BIG ones pretty darned quick.

[xenomorph555]

That would require some pretty darned rapid food growth.

Maybe it's gm or has some incredible fertiliser. Probably not normal though, apparently in china there is a farm where they clone 300 pigs a month to meet demand, it wouldn't surprise me if it was messed with. Nothing wrong with that though I guess.

[Red Iron Crown]

Most of the small closed ecologies I've read about involve algae as the photosynthetic component. Don't know if that's their approach.

[xenomorph555]

Most of the small closed ecologies I've read about involve algae as the photosynthetic component. Don't know if that's their approach.

Good point, forgot about that.

[lajoswinkler]

That's from China Space page on Facebook.

I sincerely hope their quarters were lit by normal light. I'd go psychotic here after a short time.

[vger]

I sincerely hope their quarters were lit by normal light. I'd go psychotic here after a short time.

After a short time, you wouldn't even notice it. The brain compensates for that sort of thing pretty quick. What would really mess with you is when you exit the room and then suddenly everything looks like the exact opposite color.

Why 'are' the lights that color anyhow? Is that really the wavelength plants use? Kinda surprising.

[Kryten]

There seems to have been some confusion over the purpose of the project-while it is a 'space station' simulator in a general sense, it's a lunar base rather than an orbital station.

EDIT: Good info available here and here. Salient points are;

A sub-scale experiment was run in 2012 that successfully supplied oxygen for two people from 15m² of plants, second month-long experiment with food and oxygen involved 36m², no figure for long-term experiment but is probably longer rerun of the 36

The program's a basic feasibility study, it doesn't mean an actual base is planned any more than MARS-500 meant Russia is doing a crewed Mars mission

It's being run by China Astronaut Research and Training Center, who also ran the Chinese participation in MARS-500

Edited May 22, 2014 by Kryten

[lajoswinkler]

After a short time, you wouldn't even notice it. The brain compensates for that sort of thing pretty quick. What would really mess with you is when you exit the room and then suddenly everything looks like the exact opposite color.

Why 'are' the lights that color anyhow? Is that really the wavelength plants use? Kinda surprising.

Those are plants growing lights and are consisted of red and blue. Plants disregard other colors as chlorophyll absorbs light like this:

Pure red would make you go crazy rather quickly, because it doesn't induce normal melatonin production. You see stuff, yet your brain thinks it's sleepy time. You'd go bat**** insane.

Pure blue light would not allow you to get sleepy as it would continually trick brain to think it's middle of the day. That's why late night watching computer screens delays the normal procedure for turning to sleep.

Combination of both would probably be ok, physiologically, but not psychologically. It's an unnerving color. If you wanted to sleep, you'd put something over your eyes, but I'd hate to be contained in a pink-magenta light when I'm awake. The brain would not compensate, at least not completely.

They should have these lights behind a curtain, and living quarters with normal, full spectrum light.

[Red Iron Crown]

I am going to refer to the three experimenters as Jack, Janet, and Chrissy. I'm sure they got into hilarious misunderstandings in there.

I'm finding it difficult to believe they lasted in there for three and a half months without drawing down their foodstuffs. I can't see how enough plant life can be crammed in there to feed three people continuously, even with hydroponics. Eventually they'll run the out of nutrients for the plants, too, even if they're composting.

[camlost]

There's no link to anything? Google translate is pretty good already you can probably understand 70%

http://china.huanqiu.com/article/2014-05/5000785.html

1st of all, this is NOT part of Chinese space program. This is just a research project of BTUU, those three guys are graduate students, not astronauts. I mean do they even look like sporty-type?

According to the news report, 55% food was grown in the lab, and 100% O2 and H2O are generated in the lab. That probably means no extra supply since the experiment began, since regeneration cannot be 100%.

They tested 5 types of grain, 15 types of vegetable and 1 fruit.

[Scotius]

If they really made it work, it is a huge accomplishement. Remember - we do not have to simulate whole ecosystem onboard space vessel. Just something 'good enough' for couple of years in case of Mars mission. Couple of months in case of lunar base - which can be supplied from Earth and use ISRU to get additional stuff from Moon rocks.

[Redjoker]

They should have these lights behind a curtain, and living quarters with normal, full spectrum light.

Some one did say in an earlier post that the construct was split into 3 sections including crew quarters and a growing area. This light is likely only used in the growing area and since the plants supplying all the oxygen and water is the major achievement they took the picture in that room.

Here is a few articles in English:

Daily Mail: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2636095/Space-travel-suddenly-appealing-Volunteers-live-WORMS-105-DAYS-prove-food-future-astronaut-food.html

BBC: http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-27515900

International business Times: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/move-aside-nasa-chinas-yuegong-1-simulates-plant-cultivation-moon-1449418

Edited May 22, 2014 by Redjoker

[Idobox]

I'm really surprised they're using normal plants. I would assume micro algae are a better option being more compact, having higher yields and shorter rotations. Of course eating mostly spirulina for a few months would probably lead to all sorts of health issues and drive people crazy.

[vger]

Combination of both would probably be ok, physiologically, but not psychologically.

*facepalm* Okay, I'm an idiot. For some reason I was thinking that was ONLY violet light, not a combination of red and blue. I've been playing with LED's for too long.

the plants supplying all the oxygen and water is the major achievement they took the picture in that room.

I don't see anything mentioned about that in the article.

Unless what you're referring to is the idea of having a "worm farm" in space that can completely sustain itself.

Edited May 22, 2014 by vger

[Javster]

When you consider they stole footage off Top Gun to advertise their fighter jets, this is rather tame.

Frankly, I have a hard time believing any sources that are from within the state-owned Chinese media, which is somewhat notorious for spewing propaganda. Unless another source such as Space.com, Popular Science, the Washington Post, the Daily Mail just to name a few, unless any if them report this, it is most likely more propaganda (And if they did provide opinions, take multiple sources. News nowadays is pretty biased and opinionated.).

Also, the Chinese space program only has 1.3 billion dollars USD in funding(Source: Asia Times) most of whih are dedicated to the current 2020 station program and the Chang'e Missions. And thus, I have doubts whether they really have the funds.

I would be very, very surprised if they developed this/ very, very disappointed in the United States if they didn't catch up in a short time.

EDIT: Read a article, and it looks like a repeat of the American Biosphere 2, but with 21st Century technology. Hopefully this gets Congress some common sense to give NASA a couple more billion dollars for FY 2016.

While I believe that it is real, I think the claims are being exaggerated a bit.

Uh, not the Daily Mail. The Moon base will give you cancer

They are progressing very well though. It's good to see.

[NERVAfan]

Finally, if you want to get a little background on this type of thing, take a look at the biodome experiments. That'll give you an idea of just how tricky this sort of thing would be. And compared to a space module, that biodome was HUGE and still had a lot of problems. On such a smaller scale, those problems would become BIG ones pretty darned quick.

The size does seem small.

But Biosphere 2 was poorly designed and horribly in-efficient in terms of supporting people... it tried to replicate a whole bunch of ecosystems rather than work like a farm. It's not really indicative of the limits of what can be done in a closed system, or even close...

[lagrangewei]

When you consider they stole footage off Top Gun to advertise their fighter jets, this is rather tame.

if you stop reading western media propaganda then maybe you will notice that the one who used the footage is either the government nor military.

either way, this is a verified experiment. the reason they could do it, is by having a very selective ecosystem and aggressive farming. in simple word, this means eating worms instead of chickens.