[1.0.5 - Alpha 6] Dang It! (12 september 2015)

[Mulbin]

Just a quick question while I wait for the update!

how does dangit handle long duration missions? Is a probe to eelloo guaranteed to break as it has taken so long to get there? And is dangit active on ships not loaded into the current scene?

[Ippo]

how does dangit handle long duration missions?

Poorly

Is a probe to eelloo guaranteed to break as it has taken so long to get there?

I recall that some time ago people were having difficulties making it to Jool. I can't remember if I rebalanced everything yet or not.

And is dangit active on ships not loaded into the current scene?

Not yet. There's a nifty little tool called background processing that will allow it, one day.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

If you're interested, I've had a few thoughts on long-duration missions to make things more interesting/balanced. Most of these you've probably had before (and who knows how tough they are to code) but here goes:

First, technology has something called Infant Mortality. This is the opposite of how the Kerbal Mechanics mod handles things - technology is most likely to function when it's young, as defects have yet to arise. So, maybe rather than "Chance per part per day of failure" it should be "Chance per part of flaw; chance per day per part of any flaws being exposed." If a part doesn't have a flaw, you could use it forever and it would be just fine - though, you'd never know for certain that it didn't. That way, a trip to Jool wouldn't be so bad - nomatter how long it took, it wouldn't get worse than the flat chance of parts being flawed. Mun would still be easier, though, because then there'd be the additional chance of the flaws not leading to actual problems.

Second, a lot of parts might *only* fail while in use. This could lead to some unwanted excitement - you'd learn your engine broke during landing, not safely between maneuvers - but it would address the time issue for most mission-critical parts like engines or reaction wheels.

Third, if you expect this to be installed alongside KIS, it might be an option for players to bring along backup parts, at least for the radially mounted ones. Stored parts wouldn't be experiencing wear and tear, so they'd have no chance of failure until you took them out and used them. The same might apply to retracted solar panels, or other "Activateable" parts - that way probes would just need extra supplies that they'd keep folded up until they arrived.

So, putting it all together, a mission to Jool would still have a solid chance of most parts continuing to work (as they lack the hidden <FLAWED> tag); engines and stuff that did have flaws still wouldn't be certain to fail, as they'd only be thinking about failing during maneuvers, rather than drifting silent; and stuff like communications relays, solar panels, etc, would be replaceable by Kerbals on EVA, or by simply having backup units installed but not deployed.

[Spacepetscompany]

If you're interested, I've had a few thoughts on long-duration missions to make things more interesting/balanced. Most of these you've probably had before (and who knows how tough they are to code) but here goes:

First, technology has something called Infant Mortality. This is the opposite of how the Kerbal Mechanics mod handles things - technology is most likely to function when it's young, as defects have yet to arise. So, maybe rather than "Chance per part per day of failure" it should be "Chance per part of flaw; chance per day per part of any flaws being exposed." If a part doesn't have a flaw, you could use it forever and it would be just fine - though, you'd never know for certain that it didn't. That way, a trip to Jool wouldn't be so bad - nomatter how long it took, it wouldn't get worse than the flat chance of parts being flawed. Mun would still be easier, though, because then there'd be the additional chance of the flaws not leading to actual problems.

Second, a lot of parts might *only* fail while in use. This could lead to some unwanted excitement - you'd learn your engine broke during landing, not safely between maneuvers - but it would address the time issue for most mission-critical parts like engines or reaction wheels.

Third, if you expect this to be installed alongside KIS, it might be an option for players to bring along backup parts, at least for the radially mounted ones. Stored parts wouldn't be experiencing wear and tear, so they'd have no chance of failure until you took them out and used them. The same might apply to retracted solar panels, or other "Activateable" parts - that way probes would just need extra supplies that they'd keep folded up until they arrived.

So, putting it all together, a mission to Jool would still have a solid chance of most parts continuing to work (as they lack the hidden <FLAWED> tag); engines and stuff that did have flaws still wouldn't be certain to fail, as they'd only be thinking about failing during maneuvers, rather than drifting silent; and stuff like communications relays, solar panels, etc, would be replaceable by Kerbals on EVA, or by simply having backup units installed but not deployed.

This ^^^^^

Although this would mean no new parts can fail so perhaps a compromise between the current method and this would be best?

Edited May 1, 2015 by Spacepetscompany

[Riverey]

It would be cool if new DangIt would have a special config for the KIS mod, which will make it necessary to have a screwdriver to fix parts.

[Coffeeman]

I think FreakyCheeseMan has some good points too! Currently, most parts can only fail in use. I'd rather not use a flaw system, as that would let you launch -> recover -> launch until nothing important is flawed (assuming you could detect it with an engineer.) I think the current model of parts aging while in use is better, but I'd also be open to looking at failures that aren't immediately apparent. Your third point is already in place. Stored/disabled parts should not be aging.

In other news, we're still updating for 1.02, and until then enjoy this strange bug where the engine is firing out the back, at 90 degrees, flaming out repeatedly, and providing no thrust:

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Well, I assumed that "Flaw" would be a 100% hidden characteristic. Giving Engineers a chance to detect them might be good, but probably not on the launchpad? Maybe at some point before failure, though. (i.e., the difference betwen noticing your parachute is stuck after you achieve orbit around Duna, vs. during descent. )

[Coffeeman]

I definitely like that idea. I'll look into this for more serious failures.

[no2ironman1100]

So When do you think your update will be done ? I'm so excited man !

[Coffeeman]

Probably Sunday. Ippo's out of town and I have a BSA camping trip.

[Kethevin]

Probably Sunday. Ippo's out of town and I have a BSA camping trip.

This is the last mod I'm waiting for. If I were to start a career game now, could I add this mod later without issue?

[Ippo]

This is the last mod I'm waiting for. If I were to start a career game now, could I add this mod later without issue?

Unlikely. We are breaking stuff, big time.

[Tripod27]

Nice, this is one of my favorite mods, good to see the modders are still active on it

[Coffeeman]

ALPHA 0.6

Download on KerbalStuff or update with CKAN.

Have fun!

- Compatible with KSP 1.0.2

- Add FailureModules for steering and tires

- Rework experience system using the Stock XP system.

- Configurable in the Module

- Unfortunatley at this point nothing is refunded for having bought upgrades to Kerbal Experience. Sorry! (You can hack your funds up, it's ok, you have my permission )

- Toggalable in settings

- Fully compatible with MissionController

- Tweaks to engine reliability calculation

[autumnalequinox]

ALPHA 0.6

Download on KerbalStuff or update with CKAN.

Have fun!

- Compatible with KSP 1.0.2

- Add FailureModules for steering and tires

- Rework experience system using the Stock XP system.

- Configurable in the Module

- Unfortunatley at this point nothing is refunded for having bought upgrades to Kerbal Experience. Sorry! (You can hack your funds up, it's ok, you have my permission )

- Toggalable in settings

- Fully compatible with MissionController

- Tweaks to engine reliability calculation

yay time to start a new career mode Squee!!!

I'm being weird and still on 1.0 with various fixes until all the mods update. Is it safe to use with 1.0?

[Coffeeman]

...Is it safe to use with 1.0?

Probably , if it dosent work ill build a copy against 1.0.0 for you.

[Fleb]

ALPHA 0.6

Download on KerbalStuff or update with CKAN.

Have fun!

- Compatible with KSP 1.0.2

- Add FailureModules for steering and tires

- Rework experience system using the Stock XP system.

- Configurable in the Module

- Unfortunatley at this point nothing is refunded for having bought upgrades to Kerbal Experience. Sorry! (You can hack your funds up, it's ok, you have my permission )

- Toggalable in settings

- Fully compatible with MissionController

- Tweaks to engine reliability calculation

Yeehaw!

[autumnalequinox]

Probably , if it dosent work ill build a copy against 1.0.0 for you.

I'll give it a test. You really don't have to do that.. at this point I think it's mostly sheer laziness that is keeping me at 1.0 (i think maybe just 2 or 3 critical mods I use haven't switched yet).

Thank you, though

- - - Updated - - -

(day off work, going to re-watch Apollo 13, perfect companion to an unpredictable new career game with Dang it)

- - - Updated - - -

Ohhhh and here's a question for fans of the mod: Anybody had a genuine Apollo 13 moment? Critical failure at a major maneuver node or LS failure or fuel leak that only creative work-around or backup systems save the day? I had one where I literally landed my pod with 10 seconds of O2 remaining. I had to burn hard and barely survived re-entry.

- - - Updated - - -

(oh and one more: I lost my main battery and had to keep switching my pod power on and off, using the life support mod's short grace period on power loss to make the final plunge. I also had to kill everything that was draining power.. it was very much a A13 moment)

[Fleb]

I'll give it a test. You really don't have to do that.. at this point I think it's mostly sheer laziness that is keeping me at 1.0 (i think maybe just 2 or 3 critical mods I use haven't switched yet).

Thank you, though

- - - Updated - - -

(day off work, going to re-watch Apollo 13, perfect companion to an unpredictable new career game with Dang it)

- - - Updated - - -

Ohhhh and here's a question for fans of the mod: Anybody had a genuine Apollo 13 moment? Critical failure at a major maneuver node or LS failure or fuel leak that only creative work-around or backup systems save the day? I had one where I literally landed my pod with 10 seconds of O2 remaining. I had to burn hard and barely survived re-entry.

Biggest failure for me, I had an engine failure at about 1km altitude whilst landing on the Mun. With only one engine, there was no happy ending that day.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Fleb

[Coffeeman]

With only one engine, there was no happy ending that day.

Gotta inspect man! It gives a temporary reliability boost, and maintenece isnt a bad idea either

@autumnalequinox: I assume u got it working?

[autumnalequinox]

Gotta inspect man! It gives a temporary reliability boost, and maintenece isnt a bad idea either

@autumnalequinox: I assume u got it working?

Everything seems to work so far.

Or not work, bwhaha. Just getting into my early launches but the config menu is there, no crashes or warnings or such.

- - - Updated - - -

(by no crashes or warnings haha not the mod but my computer. because crashes and warnings are a good (??) thing here).

[Minwaabi]

This seems to work with Mission Controller now. Can anyone else confirm? At the very least, I was able to take spare parts out of the command module. That was the problem before right? I think it got fixed when Malkuth made his satellite repair missions no longer need spare parts.

Also, in other news, is the whole training/electrician/mechanic feature done away with now? If so, how is experience/perks related to repairs? If not, how do I train my Kerbals?

Edited May 12, 2015 by Minwaabi

[Coffeeman]

This seems to work with Mission Controller now. Can anyone else confirm? At the very least, I was able to take spare parts out of the command module. That was the problem before right? I think it got fixed when Malkuth made his satellite repair missions no longer need spare parts.

Also, in other news, is the whole training/electrician/mechanic feature done away with now? If so, how is experience/perks related to repairs? If not, how do I train my Kerbals?

Yep. An experimental mc2 compatibility patch has been floating around for a while and got pushed out with alpha 6.

Now, instead of having seperate perks, we just use the stock perks system (most parts require some level of engineer kerbal.) The balance probably needs some tweaking, and i'd happily take your feedback.

[Minwaabi]

About the Mission Controller thing, should the front page be changed then (the release post for DangIt)? It still lists DangIt + Mission Controller as having a game breaking bug.

As for the new perk system, is there something that says what level you need to be to do what repair? Or do we need to do some !!science!! (trial and error) and figure it out?

[Coffeeman]

About the Mission Controller thing, should the front page be changed then (the release post for DangIt)? It still lists DangIt + Mission Controller as having a game breaking bug.

As for the new perk system, is there something that says what level you need to be to do what repair? Or do we need to do some !!science!! (trial and error) and figure it out?

Yes, it really should be updated, but Ippo owns the thread, not me.

RE: Experience: If you right click on parts in the vab and scroll down to the reliability section it'll tell you what you need to repair it (perk-wise.)