Ferram + MechJeb + Me or: Why is my Orbit always a egg.

[FiesesAlien]

Hello Kerbalnauts!

As a Alien it is not natural that i fly things into space, mostly i infest species to grow the hive... But back to the game: Well, i can manage everything, from start to flying to planets, land there safely and get back. Well... back... uhm, lets say that i really could need help so i dont need to alt+f12... shame on me!

But with all the science and "this complex delta-v thingie! plus that, and this, and here on the paper, then you ...."-"guides" i dont get along. I need it more like "okay, this is a button. You klick on this button and now the game starts. Hover your mouse now over this" in short: ferram for the total newbie. I use the mod-pack (or better: all the mods, not as a pack) from interstellar quest from my favorite ksp-player and try to do how he does it. Not so easy as i though.

Here is the thing i know: When i need 800 m/s in space, and my rocket has 1600 delta-v over, i will have after the burn 800 delta-v to spare. Since i want now to lean back and let mechjeb do the ascend i see that: "Ascending -> Small leans ( i configured it a bit) towards the side -> you're in space! YAY!". And that is good but... I still cannot design rockets in ferram (FAS) because i dont know which booster (that thing below the rocket, not the boosters itself) when to use.

So, if someone has a bit time over... can you make me a tutorial as easy that a 12 year old can understand? Well, if you would use crayons for fun, you can do But keep the mathematics extremely low! If i need to count objects you can be sure i will misscount 10 out of 10! Iam really, really bad at math.

Hope you all know what ive tried to explain you. But for short: I suck at playing with modifications but i want to!

Stay crunchy.

Edited June 17, 2014 by FiesesAlien

[Red Iron Crown]

I am not clear exactly what question you are asking.

With regard to MechJeb and FAR, as I understand it MJ doesn't play altogether nicely while in atmosphere with FAR. You will likely have to manually tweak the ascent profile to get it working right (with FAR you want to start the gravity turn much earlier). It should be able to circularize properly once you get out of atmosphere, though.

[FiesesAlien]

Hey.

Thanks for the answer so far. The Problem i have is that i dont know how to build a efficient rocket. In Stock-Kerbal i dont have any problems. But since i use FAS i barely can make it back to earth, extremely often i dont come back from Mun. Getting there is absolutely no problem but getting home... well... My basic Lander is the 3-Man Kapsule with a tank that holds 1660 m/s. I have 4 stock-Rockomax Mark 55 Radial Mount Liquid Engine. Landing = No Problem. Getting Back into Mun-Orbit = No Problem. Transfer back to Kerbin = No Problem. But then iam out of all delta-v, often i have around 30 - 40 m/s but thats not enough to enter a low-orbit to slow down and then re-enter the atmosphere at 30/32 km.

Stay crunchy.

[Tortoise]

Maybe you should install KER and take a look at a Delta-V map aswell

[FiesesAlien]

THAT PICTURE! Oh my holy mother nature! That map is special designed for me ^^ That, in first place, helps me now a lot without to remember "how much fuel did it take again last time i visited Mun???" thank you. Now my Problem is a lot smaller. KES, i dont know what it does and the only numbers i know are m/s and delta-v (or dV). Last time i saw KES there where so much numbers i couldnt figure out what to watch for. But i will try again (with some of the tutorials i barely understand what they try to tell me).

Maybe someone of you also has a kes-tutorial for total-newbies? Or someone to tell me how much m/s i need per ton to get out of the influence of the atmosphere because i wanna soon build my very first station-parts around mun-orbit with kethane-sattellites.

Stay crunchy.

[Red Iron Crown]

Maybe someone of you also has a kes-tutorial for total-newbies? Or someone to tell me how much m/s i need per ton to get out of the influence of the atmosphere because i wanna soon build my very first station-parts around mun-orbit with kethane-sattellites.

It's KER, for Kerbal Engineer Redux, one of the best regarded delta-V calculators for KSP (among its many other functions). You can find it here.

One of the great things about delta-V is that it doesn't matter how heavy your ship is. A 10t ship with 2000m/s of dV can reach the same destinations as a 1000t ship with 2000m/s. About 4500m/s of delta-V is required to achieve orbit in the stock game. Ferram reduces this value to about 3500m/s IIRC, hopefully a Ferram user will come along to give you a more accurate number.

[Claw]

Ferram reduces this value to about 3500m/s IIRC, hopefully a Ferram user will come along to give you a more accurate number.

I believe this is pretty accurate, if you build the rocket efficiently.

Alien, it's a bit unclear what your questions are. You're a bit all over the place with what you are asking. Maybe you could split your questions apart, we might have an easier time answering.

- If you can manage in stock then you're off to a good start.

- FAR primarily effects leaving Kerbin, and after reentry. Your flight to Mun and back should be the same, including setting up a reentry. When you are escaping the Mun/ you can set up your PE (lowest point around Kerbin) down around 30km right away. You don't have to wait till you get back near Kerbin and do more burns to circularize. Just head straight into the atmosphere.

- Thar dV map that Tortoise posted is a great start. Just know that those numbers aren't perfect for every flight. Changes in when you leave Kerbin and where the target is can have a big impact.

- And no. MJ and FAR do not play well together without some adjustments. You need to do some changes to MechJeb to make it do what you want during launches with FAR. Once out of the atmosphere, it works fine.

[Hodo]

FAR and MJ do play together. Just don't use the stock KSP settings for ascent profiles. They are horrible to start with.

First you want your launch TWR to be around 1.2-1.4.

Second you want your gravity turn to start around 100m/s or 1000m altitude, which ever happens first.

Ideally you want a 15-25% turn grade on the ascent profile. You do not want it to be the typical KSP launch to 10km turn 90deg and burn. Because in FAR your rocket will blow apart like real life.

[GoSlash27]

If I understand your question, you would like to know how to design an efficient rocket. When to use which engine, etc.

The problem is it's impossible to do that without math.

Since the process of designing a lifter is pretty much all math, I won't walk you through it, but I can explain a couple things that might be of help to you:

Your launch is composed of 3 phases and each phase requires different types of engines:

*Boost phase- This is where you lift off the pad and lift a big heavy rocket straight up out of the thickest part of the atmosphere.

*Transstage- this is the phase that carries a lighter load from the initial tipover up to space.

*Injection phase- This is the stage that accelerates the payload into orbit.

Each phase has unique needs from it's engines. The boost phase is all about brute power. You want something that can lift a heavy load quickly, so use engines that have high thrust numbers. You want this phase to generate about 2 Gs of acceleration.

The transstage is working with a lighter load and, since it is tipped over on it's side, it doesn't have to push as hard. Look for an engine that has high Isp numbers in atmosphere and medium- low thrust. It needs to push just hard enough to keep the show rolling. The lighter you can build this stage the better, since the boost stage has to haul it up there from the pad. It only needs to generate about 1 to 1 1/2 Gs of acceleration.

The injection stage will be working in space for a long time and thrust really isn't an issue with it. You need to use an engine with high Isp in vacuum and don't worry so much about the thrust. Getting this stage light and efficient is critical, since it's weight has a cascading effect down the stack. If it's heavy, then your transstage will have to be a lot bigger to move it and your boost stage has to be gimongous to lift both. 1/2 g acceleration is fine here, and if you fly it right it can still do the job with less than that.

A good design starts with the injection stage and works backwards, but since that's pretty much 100% math, that's where I'll have to leave it.

When working with the upper stages, always be thinking "how can I make this lighter and more efficient while still making it work?" Try to get creative with your payload by doing things like breaking it into smaller pieces and assembling them in orbit, or sending them up empty and fueling them in orbit.

Good luck!

-Slashy

[GoSlash27]

Hey.

Thanks for the answer so far. The Problem i have is that i dont know how to build a efficient rocket. In Stock-Kerbal i dont have any problems. But since i use FAS i barely can make it back to earth, extremely often i dont come back from Mun. Getting there is absolutely no problem but getting home... well... My basic Lander is the 3-Man Kapsule with a tank that holds 1660 m/s. I have 4 stock-Rockomax Mark 55 Radial Mount Liquid Engine. Landing = No Problem. Getting Back into Mun-Orbit = No Problem. Transfer back to Kerbin = No Problem. But then iam out of all delta-v, often i have around 30 - 40 m/s but thats not enough to enter a low-orbit to slow down and then re-enter the atmosphere at 30/32 km.

Stay crunchy.

Looking at this post, I'm thinking you can get by with the efficiency you already have. You just need to get cute with how you use it. If your lander lacks DV to get back to Kerbin, the easy solution is to send another ship to Munar orbit that doesn't have to waste fuel on landing/ launching from Mun. You can hook up with that one after you take off and ride it back to Kerbin with plenty of DV to spare.

Plus your return ship can use engines that are optimal for that trip instead of the radial engines you used to get off of Mun.

[FiesesAlien]

Hey,

through the Tables Tortoise postet i could now design perfect rockets! Every mission to minmar was a huge success, even to the mun now! The huge Problem is that i didnt know which words to use to find such a table with everything to know. Now i can playn perfectly to get into orbit, transfer to a moon, make my mission there AND get back! Well, one of my two minmus lander didnt had enough dV for the full way but i could use the atmosphere to break too =) Thats now soooooo freakin' awesome!

Over 147 hours spend now in KSP! And the next 147 hours are coming! Guys, without you i still would have this issue/problem! You're great! THX THX THX THX! THX ALOT!

Now with Docking Ports unlocked i will never have problems because i will have a transfer rocket and a seperate lander. Oh man, the game is now much more awesome since i dont have to "cheat" to get the last 500 - 800 dV to get back!

Stay crunchy.