orientation hint of control surfaces

[Justin Kerbice]

Hi,

as they are now, the two stock control surfaces doesn't have any hint to show what is up, what is down sides.

The big issue is when you put for example delta wings on something editor believe to be in the opposite direction for one reason or another (like when you attach them to a mk2 fuselage, DW are placed backward by default), the CS are put upside-down but it looks like they are attached as expected (rotation works the exact same way), so when you try to fly your craft, SAS become mad and it makes the "plane" turn in an infinite loop without choosing a direction or a way. Without SAS is also uncontrollable.

Even rotate CS by 180° (using D twice for ex) doesn't change anything at all, they decide they're good as they are and don't want to change a bit ! Stubborn CS !!

Could it be possible in a further update to have some specific marks/decals on CS (like "this side up") ? At least.

Thanks.

EDIT: I don't even think such help will be enough as those CS really don't want to be put as they should be, looks like an editor issue/lack.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Justin Kerbice

[BudgetHedgehog]

IIRC, the SPH symmetry isn't mirroring a part, it's cloning it and rotating it. It's why you can't have different colours on the top or bottom.

This is what it'd look like if wings were black on the bottom. Now, the reason control surfaces initially attach in that odd way is to get around that issue - to quote Porkjet (who made the mod in the pic)

Q: Why do the Elevons start at that weird rotation?

A: This is also due to a problem with KSP symmetry.If I make it attach at the correct rotation right away, symmetry will flip it to the wrong side on the other wing.

If I make them start 90° rotated, you will have to rotate them back manually, BUT it will now be rotated correctly on the other side aswell.

Why doesn't this happen to the stock flaps? It does, but since they are symmetric, and not wedge-shaped, it's not visible and thus doesn't matter.

Basically, if they were to attach correctly initially, they'd have the wrong orientation.

Also, I don't know why you're having trouble with the control surfaces - no matter which way you put them on, they should always deflect the air in the correct direction. Could you possibly post a picture or video of the problem? I'm having trouble understanding it.

[Justin Kerbice]

I see, a KSP issue (again).

Here is one pic, not really the best:

front CS point in opposite way as back CS (pitch up) and even the small wing with integrated CS put on the front FLT-800 side suffer from the same issue !

Thanks for the info.

[Kasuha]

Control surfaces don't have 'up', 'down', 'left', or 'right' sides. The only thing you need to pay attention to is that they have a defined 'forward' direction. Don't _ever_ place control surfaces backwards (or travel backwards with your plane) or all kinds of weird and unphysical stuff may start happening. Such as you pull up, your control surfaces seem to go the right way, but their lift pushes you down.

[BudgetHedgehog]

I see, a KSP issue (again).

Here is one pic, not really the best:

http://i.imgur.com/r55yKE0.png

front CS point in opposite way as back CS (pitch up) and even the small wing with integrated CS put on the front FLT-800 side suffer from the same issue !

Thanks for the info.

That's because the front and back control surfaces are on opposite sides of the CoM. You're pressing S in that pic, right? Well, that pitches the thing up - if you have control surfaces in front of the CoM, to pitch up, they need to deflect air down and if they're behind the CoM, they need to deflect air up. That's exactly what's happening in your picture and isn't a problem, it's just physics.

If they were to deflect air in the same direction, you'd end up translating up or down. I don't even know if that's possible to do in KSP, thanks to the behaviour of control surfaces (that I mentioned above) being hardcoded into the game.

Edited June 18, 2014 by ObsessedWithKSP

[Justin Kerbice]

Damned I've never be really aware of that, thanks guys.

But, what explain weird (SAS only ?) behaviour ? Such thing, not really a plane, just move in a circle until it hit the ground, not really useful. Maybe is another issue related to SAS/CoM/something.

[Stargate525]

Damned I've never be really aware of that, thanks guys.

But, what explain weird (SAS only ?) behaviour ? Such thing, not really a plane, just move in a circle until it hit the ground, not really useful. Maybe is another issue related to SAS/CoM/something.

Usually if something flips around like mad your COM is significantly behind your COL.