[1.0.x] [V1.9f] Kerbal Foundries wheels, anti-grav repulsors and tracks

[Haifi]

Just wondering, there should be other mods with the same problems... If i knew what to look for maybe there are similarities, even if its just using for example blender in a certain version that causes unity to behave like this... Just a thought.

Cheers

[mike9606]

Dangit lofi, the 0.90 in the title had me tricked for a second into thinking 1.8 was out.

[lo-fi]

The issue is something to do with the way KSP handles SkinnedMeshRenderer, which is used to make the tracks flex as the suspension moves. It's a little like bones in character animation. There are very few other parts that need such a function, but the thread for Part Icon Resizer may point you in the right direction if some exist. I'm afraid this is no mere Blender export snafu (and I use 3D Studio anyway) - it's some kind of technical problem with Unity/KSP.

- - - Updated - - -

Dangit lofi, the 0.90 in the title had me tricked for a second into thinking 1.8 was out.

Hehe, sorry dude! We're literally at the tidying phase now, just tying up loose ends.

[Gaalidas]

Texture sharing should be rather easy once any remaining texture names with spaces are eliminated. KSP really doesn't handle spaces very well when referencing models and textures using "MODEL{}" nodes. The actual texture names don't necessarily have to be different though, just the content.

The way I generally set it up, when modifying other people's work to same my ram, is to move all the textures that share the same content into a new folder that I commonly call "CommonTex" within the root directory on the mod (or in the mod's "parts" folder if it uses one). I then go into all the parts which are going to have the shared textures and replace those shared-content textures with a 2x2 blank texture. Why not 1x1? Good question, but considering all the fuss with "divisible-by-2" rules, it seems a good precaution. Then I just have to set up the "MODEL{}" node to reference the model from the root "GameData" folder and do the same for the textures which need to be replaced. Interesting thing to note here is that textures which are still going to be loaded from the same folder as the model itself do not need to be defined in the node, only the ones that are going to be replaced. Also, the texture to be replaced can have a different name than the one you are replacing it with. I'm prepared to do some work on the configurations once you've got all the files named and assembled.

Alternatively, you can rename all of your "part.cfg" files into files named for the part they are configuring. You then eliminate all the folders and just throw everything into a single folder. this works best if your textures not only share content, but also the same file names. You still use "MODEL{}" nodes to be sure that everything is referenced properly, but the textures can remain un-replaced in the configs because the models are all referencing the same files as local files. You also eliminate the need for dummy textures in the individual part folders. This would have been a good idea to set up from the start, but the way you have it set up now suggests that this method would be more trouble than it is worth. For a good example of this particular setup is the KSO mod. Everything is piled into a single folder for the parts. Another really good example is how USI sets up many of their assets in separate folders where all the textures and models are, and the configs in another directory entirely.

Another texture I'm wondering about is the one on the medium wheel which looks like a repulsor texture. I know that the model originally came from the repulsor wheel, and I see that the model references this texture, but I also know the wheel doesn't actually use it.

Well... that post was longer than I intended.

[lo-fi]

Ahh, gotcha.

I think the first option is probably best, it would take a lot of editing and quite a change of workflow to lump everything into one folder, but I do like the idea of a common textures folder. By no means critical to do before next release, though..

The medium wheel will deprecated shortly, and the repulsor wheel will be toggleable between repulsor wheel/plain wheel once I've got it all smoothed out. note the ObjectDestroy module in the config which is a placeholder for that function and simply

removes the repulsor mesh for the moment.

[Gaalidas]

Yeah, I figured that method could be eventually made into a toggle so that you could use the same part for a single-function or a multifunction mode. Honestly, I'd like to see an option for the medium wheel to remain animate-able (the turning over on it's side) like the repulsor wheel does, but without the repulsor, so that they can be made into a landing leg of some sort. Another idea would be to have a second object, like the repulsor object but without the repulsor surface, that would instead resemble a platform that a craft could sit on when not wanting to be mobile. Even better would be if the object the repulsor was attached to could be switched between repulsor and landing leg mode in-flight (switch it to the other mode and the little circular panel just flips over) and you'd have the ultimate one-part solution... until we think of something else to make it more ultimate.

Anyway, all this stuff will not be eneded for this release, like you said. This is not the time to be coming out with insane new ideas for features we want to see. Lets get this stuff out to the public and let them do the hard work of testing them first.

[lo-fi]

Stop giving me ideas, man

[Gaalidas]

I can't! It's a sickness. It's all your fault... you started it! You just had to go and reinvent the wheel didn't you? And they just had to be superior to every other wheel out there, didn't they? Gah!

By the way, already added TS support to those new tracks and the dev part MainGear with its own scaletype, even though I have no clue what it even looks like.

EDIT: Oh, just had another one... what about a track-like structure comprised of wheels all attached to each other... sort of like a prefab four-wheel rack, complete with steering optimization built in. It'd be basically a track, without the track, and rubber on the wheel bits, along with a combo of track-steering and multi-wheel steering. When stationary, it'd use track-style steering. When moving, it'd use the other form of steering.

GAH, there I go again! See what you've done? I'm ruined!

Edited January 16, 2015 by Gaalidas

[lo-fi]

Muwahaha!

Ummm, yeah.

Careful with TS on the new tracks, it didn't seem to like the way I destroy bits of the part when I first set them up! I've no idea what was going on, I just removed it from the config as a 'fix later' thing. Main gear is just as experimental, I couldn't stand to have another set of symmetrical gear parts. Yes, I am insane.

Can't do multiple tracks on one part, would take a huge plugin recode I'm afraid..

[AntiMatter001]

I can't! It's a sickness. It's all your fault... you started it! You just had to go and reinvent the wheel didn't you? And they just had to be superior to every other wheel out there, didn't they? Gah!

By the way, already added TS support to those new tracks and the dev part MainGear with its own scaletype, even though I have no clue what it even looks like.

EDIT: Oh, just had another one... what about a track-like structure comprised of wheels all attached to each other... sort of like a prefab four-wheel rack, complete with steering optimization built in. It'd be basically a track, without the track, and rubber on the wheel bits, along with a combo of track-steering and multi-wheel steering. When stationary, it'd use track-style steering. When moving, it'd use the other form of steering.

GAH, there I go again! See what you've done? I'm ruined!

hmmm... i would like to suggest something a bit more... boring

(well in my opinion it would be): landing gear tracks... it should be able to be done via IR when the new smaller "micro" (as i've named them) tracks come out.

another idea would be unfolding tracks. so you have them stored in a cylinder or compartment and they pop out and unfold into tracks... (Warning: this may be imposible to innovate since i'm no programmer and have no idea what sort of limits your code has)

Sidenote: i was thinking about the landing gear idea and was wonding if your tracks are able to be stowed away and deployed like the stock landing gear... then again it might be imposible.

i'm just throwing ideas at you here and seeing what sticks

[lo-fi]

Great ideas, but some serious technical challenges with unfolding tracks! Retractable, maybe, but the problem is always making something that can stow away without clipping into the part they're mounted to. The plugin currently supports a retract animation, but I've yet to make something that actually makes use of it, aside from the insanely complicated landing gear that's in the works.

[Gaalidas]

Didn't those really huge wheels have the retract action available to them? I remember I could reduce the suspension to zero and then retract them and basically have an immobile rover. That was a long time ago, though.

[Madrias]

Wouldn't mind a set of Retract-A-Tracks, or perhaps a set of folding wheels. Wheels that retract into a box that conveniently sticks onto the side of a RoveMate box would be nice.

Also wouldn't mind, if it's not too tricky, a set of wheels with attached fenders and lights. Would make some of my rovers a little better (I keep forgetting to add lights!). Perhaps based around that awesome Small Wheel.

And, yet another bit of fun from my overly tired mind: An old (think vintage) car styled cockpit. Two seats, connects to a chassis pan that allows the easy mounting of some wheels, an electrical generator, and some fuel. And of course, a rumble-seat inspired EVA seat and a trunk full of batteries. It's just an idea, but I know ideas can sometimes create other ideas.

[Gaalidas]

We do definitely need some vintage stylish car parts for our kerbals to ride around in. Even better if those little wheels can turn on their sides and become miniature repulsors. It'd be like that flying car in that TV show "Agents of Shield" that we only really see doing anything in one or two episodes.

[lo-fi]

Oh yes, there's a retract function, but needs a config line to enable! Ought to retest after changing all the suspension code...

I do sort of have some ideas for a folding wheel, just not got round to modelling. Last time I tried I slipped and made the small wheel instead (which nli2work has just made an awesome texture for). Sort of shied away from doing fenders until I've updated the plugin to make them toggleable like TT, but would be great with integrated lights speaking of which, lights are something I need to learn how to do!

Open cockpit rover body could be cool. I suppose there's two good ways to go about it: either as an external command seat to be used with Through the eyes of a Kerbal, or a normal pod, just open and use JSI transparent pod. Either way, could be quite cool.

Small repulsor wheels? That shouldn't be too hard, actually.

This stuff is definitely next-next version material, though! The other thing I'd like to do is set up some subtle particle emitters to kick up a little dust from where the wheels contact the ground, as well as vary the sound depending on torque or brake application, and slip, but these things are really all just icing on the cake sort of stuff.

[AntiMatter001]

oh whoops what i meant by "unfolding tracks" is just an animation of the tracks coming out of something while the actual wheelmesh lowers to the ground so that it provides traction... i have no idea what i just said o.o

i've noticed with the stock landing wheels that the mesh for the wheel is still there even when the landing gear is pulled up... maybe you could do the same?

or another idea would be to put the "wheely bit" on the bottom of the track and then have the track rotate upwards into a compartment to make the mesh face upward into the comparment rather than downwards at the ground...

sorry i'll be back with pictures of what i mean by using IR and this mod.

also how to i suscribe to a thread...

EDIT: here's what i mean... i had to hack gravity for this because the servos aren't strong enough to hold up the tracks without "bending"

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see i'd like tracks that flip over then go into the body of the craft....

if you have something better in mind then that's ok o.o

Edited January 17, 2015 by AntiMatter001

[lo-fi]

Hehe, still not really sure what you mean. Drawings are always good!

Look in thread tools up the top, or the little yellow star icon on the mobile version.

[AntiMatter001]

i got pictures up of what i mean but it's probably mostlikely a bad idea due to various problems i've been having so far with my constructions.

they are there as ideas only i'm not saying you should do them. if they turn out to be hard to do then forget them.

[lo-fi]

Oh, I see. No need for IR, standard animation is ok for that. Gives me a few ideas, yes

[AntiMatter001]

Oh, I see. No need for IR, standard animation is ok for that. Gives me a few ideas, yes

yes i knew you would also i was just testing that pod that is in devolopment that you made and unfortunatly the IVA is just untextured in 0.90 but i'm happy to report that the tracks are awesome for fast moving ground to air (with help from hills) vehicles. i just made a half track that reached mach 1 XD

[Madrias]

Oh yes, there's a retract function, but needs a config line to enable! Ought to retest after changing all the suspension code...

I do sort of have some ideas for a folding wheel, just not got round to modelling. Last time I tried I slipped and made the small wheel instead (which nli2work has just made an awesome texture for). Sort of shied away from doing fenders until I've updated the plugin to make them toggleable like TT, but would be great with integrated lights speaking of which, lights are something I need to learn how to do!

Open cockpit rover body could be cool. I suppose there's two good ways to go about it: either as an external command seat to be used with Through the eyes of a Kerbal, or a normal pod, just open and use JSI transparent pod. Either way, could be quite cool.

Small repulsor wheels? That shouldn't be too hard, actually.

This stuff is definitely next-next version material, though! The other thing I'd like to do is set up some subtle particle emitters to kick up a little dust from where the wheels contact the ground, as well as vary the sound depending on torque or brake application, and slip, but these things are really all just icing on the cake sort of stuff.

Definitely, I place my vote in with normal pod with JSI. I've never managed to get Through the Eyes of a Kerbal to work.

[mike9606]

To be honest, I just want the long tracks so I can build tracked things easier.

[lo-fi]

yes i knew you would also i was just testing that pod that is in devolopment that you made and unfortunatly the IVA is just untextured in 0.90 but i'm happy to report that the tracks are awesome for fast moving ground to air (with help from hills) vehicles. i just made a half track that reached mach 1 XD

Outstanding! Which pod do you mean?

Definitely, I place my vote in with normal pod with JSI. I've never managed to get Through the Eyes of a Kerbal to work.

Has the other advantage you can launch with the pod manned. I like that idea, goes on the list too.

[BoomShroom]

I remember in the SP+ thread porkjet mentioned something about some of the elevons being turned wonky so KSP's symmetry would spit out both sides correctly. Would it be possible to make wheel somewhat like a motorcycle's back wheel and still have its symmetry work right?

This is almost entirely because I want to make a rover with suspension like the Warthog in the Halo series.

Image solely for reference.

[lo-fi]

if only it were that simple with complicated parts like wheels..

I've built a plugin that makes it possible, but it's a huge amount of work setting up asymmetric parts. For simple stuff, you can pull the invert one scale axis trick, but anything that needs a lookat, hierarchy or wheel collider is an absolute, 100% fail using that method.