[1.0.x] [V1.9f] Kerbal Foundries wheels, anti-grav repulsors and tracks

[lo-fi]

Cheers dude

[Gaalidas]

I drop in from time to time, but moved on to other things and struggling to find any motivation for KSP modding. Do you have a KerbalStuff account? I can add in co-authors who can issue updates, I believe.

Actually, I never did register... at least I don't think. I never found much point since I didn't need to publish anything. I'll look into that.

I as well have a hard time finding a reason to launch KSP these days at all, but the coding side of this stuff still nags at me to try and push the limits more and more, so I continue to struggle with it.

Edit: Registered, same name as here. If you can do that co-author thing, I'll keep this baby fresh for a while longer. I've got a mental list of things I've seen done elsewhere that would be awesome to implement here, plus a lot of time on my hands to mess with code and what not. If it can't be done, I can always simply start offering update packages via dropbox or something.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Gaalidas

[lo-fi]

Trouble with KerbalStuff trying to add you in. Have emailed, will get it sorted soon

[lo-fi]

Actually, it turns out you'll have to make your account public

[Gaalidas]

Who knew? alright, I'll look into it...

Alright, I am now publicized. Bring it on you crazy world... -dives for cover-

[*Aqua*]

@Gaalidas

If you've got a problem with something and lo-fi is out of town, you can always ask me for help.

[Gaalidas]

I intend to. As for KerbalStuff... The mod page shows an accept/decline for co-authorship, but either it's my phone or the site won't do anything when I select "accept" so, I'll try again when I'm home again. Either way, I intend on packaging the mod up for an update relatively soon which should put most of the recently reported bugs to rest.

EDIT: I now have the power! Well, some power anyway. Alright, time to sort through this package and get some stuff updated.

Okay, I've released a new version of KF to KerbalStuff. This should be the most bug-free of them all... at least that's what I'm hoping for.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Gaalidas

[S1000RRHP4]

My problem is fixed with this new update, thanks^^

[*Aqua*]

@Gaalidas & lo-fi

Because Gaalidas can't update the first post & thread title you should create a post which sums up all the changes Gaalidas make and add a link to it in the opening post.

[Gaalidas]

Or they could just keep an eye on the release site (KerbalStuff) and read the change-logs there. This is a development thread after all. I figure we'd want to do something like that for a release thread definitely though.

So, lo-fi... I know you're wanting to take a step back for a while, but I'm running into some major hurdles in attempting to expand our non-KF part conversions. The biggest of these hurdles comes from the lack of documentation as to what each of the parameters in the various modules does exactly. Some of them are self explanatory, such as the "Name" fields (susTravName, colliderName, etc.) but fields such as "moveColliderBy" in OverrideWheelCollider are not quite so easy to figure out, and "spring", "damper", and "mass", while not exactly hard to understand, don't come with any matching values in the standard part in which to make a guess with a new part conversion. In KFWheel, we have several axis fields which are a bit of a mystery as well. Any light you could shed on those would be awesome.

The most confusing to me at this moment is the moveColliderBy field. I'm looking at these models and the wheel collider seems to be positioned exactly where the physical wheel is, which begs the question: "Why would I ever want to move it away from the wheel itself?"

- - - Updated - - -

My problem is fixed with this new update, thanks^^

Awesome, glad at least one person is benefiting from my update.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Gaalidas

[lo-fi]

No trouble if you're stuck on something.

It really is pretty much what it says on the tin: I actually wrote a module which moves the wheel collider inside the model. That's how I manage to get more suspension travel out of the stock part, for example. Probably the ERS Wheel too, thinking about it... What that bit does is actually translate the wheel collider by the specified amount in the Y axis. This is going to be a little tricky to get a handle on (with them being invisible, and all) without have a good idea of how things generally look in Unity. If I hadn't moved the collider inside most of the models, I would have ended up with suspension which doesn't compress enough and extends way past where it should. The small stock wheels are a great example, actually. The default travel is something stupid like .05m. I wanted .2m! So I set the travel and played with the mover module until it all worked nicely and nothing dislocated itself. Hope that makes sense? You don't move it away from the model, you move it within the model along the Y axis.

Thanks for offering to help hold the fort, Aqua

[Gaalidas]

Alright, I think I understood a teeny bit of what you just said. My brain doesn't grasp these things too quickly I'm afraid. I was trying to convert that Karibou wheel this morning. I got about as far as writing a MM patch that referenced the original wheel... and then got stuck before I actually patched anything. But hey, it's progress either way, right? Yeah... it's sad. Anyway, I'll give it another go later if I feel up to it. Considering all the complexity of RoverDude's wheel model, there might not be all that much that needs to be overridden really, as long as the KF modules know what the various transform and object names are. The animation is going to be another thing all together, but considering the issues we have with the animation and the functionality of the ERS wheels (I'm unsure, but I think we may still have issues with them actually working and not simply getting stuck in a retracted state no matter what they are visually) I've actually been thinking about taking inspiration from the various mods that makes their own animation modules (such as RoverDude's plugins) and implement a KF-friendly animation module based on those.

Anyway, you'll notice I made a new release and already got at least one happy report back, so things are looking up. And I'm not slowing down too soon either.

[lo-fi]

Indeed, it may not need the collider tweaking at all. Keep up the food work

[DocMop]

Is there a way to allow the wheels some sideways drift capability? Like some of the tracks have.

[Gaalidas]

Indeed, it may not need the collider tweaking at all. Keep up the food work

Food? Where!? I need food... Mmmm... foooood....

- - - Updated - - -

Is there a way to allow the wheels some sideways drift capability? Like some of the tracks have.

Possibly... unsure how at the moment. That's lo-fi's department. If it's purely a config option, then it's likely that you could simply tweak whatever allows that sort of movement. Any thoughts, lo-fi?

[lo-fi]

I had no idea the tracks had drifting capability?

[Gaalidas]

Me neither, but then I've had my brain in the code for so long I don't even remember my last rover that actually used a track. Perhaps it's a "feature" of an older version with less sideways movement restriction or something.

It does bring up the idea to have both an overdrive mode available along with an "instant emergency brake" mode for those situations where you just have to force some hydroplaning action to get that maneuver completed properly.

That brings up another idea I had: Get going fast enough with those oversized wheels and you might be able to cross small bodies of water with it. Might even be able to make them float due to their potentially gas-filled interiors. I was thinking the effect could possibly be produced by making use of the water slider for more than just a repulsor module.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Gaalidas

[lo-fi]

You could add some action groups for torque, and it would be entirely possible to use the water slider to simulate the Icelandic way of crossing lakes. By which I mean 1600 nitrous boosted horsepower on flotation tyres fitted to something that weighs about as much as a quad. Very Kerbal.

[Gaalidas]

That does sound kerbal. That water slider could be a great way to simulate a lot of things relating to the water. I'm going to have to experiment with that.

[Madrias]

Mild idea, and not entirely sure how easy or feasible it'd be to do, but if you've broken the Water Slider out of being all-vessel and it's now part specific, would it be possible to have sliders able to be turned on or turned off in the assembly room?

Essentially, being able to turn on or turn off water sliders for tracks, wheels, and repulsors.

[Gaalidas]

Are you meaning some sort of visualization for the colliders in the VAB/SPH? Or are you meaning being able to toggle on/off the functionality for specific parts? As far as I can tell, having the water slider active doesn't really have any negative effects for non-flying vessels, so I honestly don't see the problem with having it active at all times for any wheel/track/repulsor.

I am working on a way to make sure it's only active when the craft is within a certain distance from sea-level so that one can still use these parts on flight-enabled craft that may start the flight scene already off the ground, since it seems to have trouble positioning itself correctly for in-flight initializations (thus why BDArmory missiles were spawning them in mid-air) but, beyond that issue, there seems to be no negative with it. Only one slider is active per vessel too, so multiple slider-enabled parts don't cause extra performance hits. I would like to be able to scale the size of the slider to the size of the craft, so that super-massive vessels could still make proper use of it. Right now, though considering the vessel would have to be super massive to make this an issue, in theory your vessel could be so large that the slider would no longer be able to cover the entirety of the repulsors attached to it.

As for an editor visualization, I would eventually like to figure out how to create a FS-style wheel-alignment option for the KF wheels, since they tend to show up in the editor in full retracted state which makes it difficult to gauge how they will work when physics is attached. Alternatively I might be able to figure out how to force full deployed state when in the editors. Ideally I'd like them to appear in a mid-point state, or the neutral suspension that some models have defined.

Essentially the water slider is vessel based still, but it is initialized by the parts instead of the entire vessel on load.

[Madrias]

Was referring to having the ability to turn the functionality on and off. The idea being that I could turn on water sliders for things like monster truck tires or tracks, or turn off water sliders for repulsors in the SPH while building my vehicles.

I do thank you for making sure the water sliders are only enabled near sea-level. If it's not too difficult, would it also be possible to check to see if the vessel is controlled or not? Essentially, guaranteeing that spent stages, debris, and other such things won't keep sliders active and cause the annoying "You've crashed into a slider plane mid-air" bug. Granted, I haven't seen any of that since I updated to the latest, but it did make a mess for quite a while and had me wondering what was causing it.

Still, I'm enjoying the repulsors, tracks, and wheels. It's nice to be able to make rovers with tracks, and wheels that can survive a jump without breaking, locking up, and trashing the rest of the craft. It's fun making vehicles that make use of the repulsors and their floaty goodness. It's also fun using really small tracks to make micro-rovers to travel around the world.

[lo-fi]

They should always be below sea level, never active in the SPH, and won't appear on debris. If you find otherwise, it's definitely a bug! They also sink if there are no active repulsors on the vessel.

[DocMop]

I had no idea the tracks had drifting capability?

They have, especially the Tiny Tracks. See this simple rover below:

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197968773291/screenshot/617346972284142375

Would be absolutely incredible if we could have two sliders, one for the forward/backward and one for the sideways grip. This way we could build rovers that can drive on Mun or Minmus and actually get somewhere and, on the other hand, race on Kerbin without the instant rollover by steering. Some speed adjustment slider ontop of that and you have all you ever need.

In my opinion, this feature would make this pack absolutely stand out over every other wheel pack out there. Who doesn't get annoyed be the problems / lack of features (in stock wheels) stated above?

[lo-fi]

Adjustable grip not going to happen.