Is there a way to preserve special debris?

[SpacedInvader]

I'm looking to preserve special debris so it doesn't get cleared out. Specifically in this case I'm referring to the descent portion of my first lunar lander, but it's something I'd like to know about for the future as well.

Edited July 2, 2014 by SpacedInvader

[EdFred]

Tack a probe core on it.

[SpacedInvader]

Will the work after the fact? Go back there with KAS and slap one on?

[cantab]

Provided it hasn't already been terminated by the autocleanup (the fate that befell my Mun lander's descent stage), you may be able to redesignate it as a ship by renaming it in the tracking station. Though I don't guarantee that actually protects it from the autocleanup.

[AlexinTokyo]

I think (could be wrong) that you can only rename/redesignate ships if they have a controlling part. So you'd still need to add a probe core or something.

I don't know about KAS, but in stock you could do it using the claw to attach the probe. Might not look all that great, though.

[Claw]

You do need to have a probe core onboard (or some other controller) to rename it. However, if you're not opposed, you can open up the save game and redesignate it by hand. Switch out the vessel label type, and if the setup happens to have a type number. I think the number is usually associated with docking. Whatever label type you pick needs to be spelled and capitalized correctly or it won't be recognized.

[cantab]

I think (could be wrong) that you can only rename/redesignate ships if they have a controlling part.

You do need to have a probe core onboard (or some other controller) to rename it.

Assuming I don't have any mods altering the behaviour (and I don't believe I do), this only applies to when you're flying the vessel. In the Tracking Station you can rename anything. Just enable showing debris, select the piece in question from the list, click the i icon on the right, then click the name and the rename dialogue will show up.

[Jimbimbibble]

Another option is to just increase the maximum persistent debris in settings. Unless you're running ksp on a dinosaur it should be no problem (and be careful how you design to reduce debris clutter). The game should only delete stuff on an impact trajectory.

[Claw]

...click the i icon on the right, then click the name and the rename dialogue will show up.

I can't try this at the moment, but it's crazy how many little features are buried in this game.

[SpacedInvader]

Will renaming it to something other than debris do anything at all? Doesn't it need to have a command module of some type to be counted as anything other than debris? Is this a stupid question?

Edited June 30, 2014 by SpacedInvader

[Claw]

Will renaming it to something other than debris do anything at all?

Well, it depends exactly on what you mean by renaming it. KSP classifies object types separately from the name. So if, by saying "renaming it to something other than debris..." you only mean the name of the vessel, then no, it won't do anything. You have to change the TYPE of the vessel. Changing the type is also done via the renaming menu.

I have no idea what the renaming thing looks like that Cantab describes, but if it's the same as the "in-flight" name changing menu, then it should work the same.

[SpacedInvader]

Well, it depends exactly on what you mean by renaming it. KSP classifies object types separately from the name. So if, by saying "renaming it to something other than debris..." you only mean the name of the vessel, then no, it won't do anything. You have to change the TYPE of the vessel. Changing the type is also done via the renaming menu.

I have no idea what the renaming thing looks like that Cantab describes, but if it's the same as the "in-flight" name changing menu, then it should work the same.

Well, I reclassified it to a base in the save file and renamed it and it still got cleaned... Not sure why though, as I only have 78 pieces of debris and my cleaner is set to 250.

Seems more like a glitch than a cleaning now. I edited the vessel back into the save file and then launched the game and went back to check if it was there correctly. It was, but it deleted itself immediately upon going back to the space port. Right now I'm trying it again, but I'm not going to visit the vessel to see if it lasts a while. I'm thinking that maybe it needs to have a command module of some sort on it or it will just delete itself.

Edited June 30, 2014 by SpacedInvader

[SpacedInvader]

Well for the life of me I can't get this thing to stay in existence... I've even tried copying the parameters over from the flag that's planted right next to the stage and still it deletes itself immediately if I go anywhere near it.

Edited June 30, 2014 by SpacedInvader

[AlexinTokyo]

Confirmed that it's possible to rename debris from the tracking station without attaching a probe core - thanks to cantab for that tip.

Also confirmed that the renamed debris is reported as whatever it is redesignated to in the tracking station and map view, and is not deleted by the persistent debris cleanup.

1. Launched a ship with two boosters, each with parachutes set to prime on separation (no probe core or other controlling part).
   
2. Follow the debris down after separation, so it isn't deleted by the 'in atmo but out of physics range' cleaner.
   
3. Confirm that all landed pieces (some broke up on splash down despite chutes) register as debris.
   
4. Change one piece to "Station" and change its name.
   
5. Change one piece to "Ship" and change its name.
   
6. Exit game to start screen.
   
7. Change Max. Persistent Debris setting from 250 to 0.
   
8. Reload save.
   
9. Confirm that pieces set to "Debris" were deleted (they were) and pieces set to "Station" and "Ship" were not (they weren't).

So it looks like there may be some other reason your lander is being deleted. Are you using any mods?

Or possibly the save file editing is mucking it up somehow.

[Mr Shifty]

Well for the life of me I can't get this thing to stay in existence... I've even tried copying the parameters over from the flag that's planted right next to the stage and still it deletes itself immediately if I go anywhere near it.

It has happened to me before that I forgot to enable viewing debris in the Map window. (Put your mouse near the top of the screen; debris is the left-most icon.) It's disabled by default, so it can easily look like your vessel has disappeared when it's just hidden. Forgive me if this is not the case, but it's caught me a few times.

[SpacedInvader]

As much as I'd like to say this is just a viewing issue, the thing is clearly being deleted... Going back to the flag that's right next to it after its gone shows that the flag is still there, but not the lander. Also, I don't think it has anything to do with my save editing anymore, as visiting the scene while using a backup of the save from before the edits deletes the lander in the same way.

Now, I am using a whole load of mods, more than 80 to be exact, so it could be any one of them causing this...

EDIT: Another odd thing is that visiting other debris on the Moon like the descent stage of my first robotic lander does not cause it to disappear so it's something specific to this vessel.

Edited June 30, 2014 by SpacedInvader

[cantab]

I did experience issues with debris landed on Kerbin getting cleaned up when the debris limit was set to a value that should have been higher, but was still finite. It made me think the only "safe" choice is unlimited debris.

[SpacedInvader]

I did experience issues with debris landed on Kerbin getting cleaned up when the debris limit was set to a value that should have been higher, but was still finite. It made me think the only "safe" choice is unlimited debris.

I don't actually think this is an issue with the cleaner anymore since other debris is being left alone, even after visiting it, instead no matter what I do to try and keep this one alive, it goes poof after it loads. I'm going to try hyperediting a copy of it up there in it's place to see if that stays or if its something to do with one of the parts instead.

[TMS]

..........

[SpacedInvader]

Well, it seems to be something specific to this vessel design. I hyperedited another up to the same place and it deleted, then I landed another mission in a different location and it deleted. Trying to look through the logs now to see what's going on...

EDIT: So apparently KSP really doesn't like the AIES landing legs I used as the engine threw about a thousand exceptions to them in the log. Going to try swapping them for another set and see what happens.

Edited June 30, 2014 by SpacedInvader

[SpacedInvader]

Ok, so I can confirm now that the issue was specifically with the AIES Legstrot legs that I had used on the lander. Landing a lander with everything identical except swapping squad legs in for the AIES ones resulted in the vehicle staying put after the fact. I'm not sure what could be causing this, but I'll take this over to the AIES thread.