Better Stock Crafts 2: This Time it's Personal!

[Xeldrak]

As far as I can see you only have 9 participants. I don't see whats the problem - JohnFX even listed them for you.

Just click "Thread tools" -> "Add a poll to the thread" and you have a save and reliable poll.

Your are the only one who can do this GregroxMun and it is a much better solution than any third party poll.

Tell them they got one week to vote. Done.

PS: In your original post - "Insiration"? Where did you copy my text?

Edited July 12, 2014 by Xeldrak

[advil]

Nah, just have someone else do it. I'm too busy to set up an active challenge right now. Check out my Apollo Redirect Mission challenge as well, which is not active on my part.

How nice if you to keep us all waiting only to return and say you're too busy to close the thread. Well, for what it's worth, I was going to vote for you Manni01. Because you kept it simple but your tug also provided the versatility of all three sizes of docking port. And it sort of resembles an R2 unit so it is also aesthetically pleasing lol

[Mathman]

So I just checked and there are 9 entries. I think it would be sad for just one person to not get voted on so I would hope that all of us go into the poll instead of only one getting eliminated (unless any do not qualify)

10: armandd - had an entry. posted the craft files, jpg's and everything. Let's not forget him.

Also, in keeping with the concept of a simple tug for beginners my vote is for armandd's small tug. In keeping with the concepts of early sci-fi writers. If I were to vote for a NASA style tug/orbital transfer vehicle/moon shuttle, it would be manni01 since it is elegant, relatively simple, flexible, and capable. That is a what if... my vote is for small and compact. Mr. armandd... he's out there somewhere.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Mathman

[manni01]

Ok guys. the OP doesn't care about this thread anymore so I'm gonna post a poll which you can answer. It will get deleted in two weeks because thats how the poll thingy works, but I will let you guys vote for until monday? mabye longer? ideas, suggestions?

Poll:

https://www.polleverywhere.com/multiple_choice_polls/zQytFv7z2SX2ORY/web

[Pecan]

Mathman - simple but flexible. Armandd's doesn't meet the entry requirements, otherwise it'd be his. The rest just seem too big/complicated for a beginner's example.

Advil, I really liked your 'set' of robots - and the fact that you were quick to answer my question about the decouplers.

[advil]

Mathman - simple but flexible. Armandd's doesn't meet the entry requirements, otherwise it'd be his. The rest just seem too big/complicated for a beginner's example.

Advil, I really liked your 'set' of robots - and the fact that you were quick to answer my question about the decouplers.

Well whoever wins congratulations to you. I voted at the offsite vote linked above. Thanks guys for picking this up when the guy who created the thread dropped the ball. As far as any of these being too complicated for a beginner, do you remember how hard docking anything was when you first tried to do it? I would say any beginner that is halfway decent at docking is going to see all of our designs as pretty basic. For the people not so good at docking, they need to watch Scott Manley's docking how to. Just pretend Shrek is teaching you how to fly spacecraft

[advil]

Here's that video.

[manni01]

k guys, seems like my poll is accepted here. Last afternoon until monday( Europe is 6 hours ahead of America, and its unlikely that many people are awake 2 am on sunday)? We can make it longer.

[Pecan]

...I would say any beginner that is halfway decent at docking is going to see all of our designs as pretty basic. For the people not so good at docking, they need to watch Scott Manley's docking how to....

NOW you say! See, all along I was thinking "give a beginner an easy tool" and I should have been saying "Go away; you're not good enough for my ship".

So - anyone that can use the complicated ships doesn't need them anyway and anyone that can't has to sod off? Wonder if there'll be another attempt at - supplied as [stock] for beginners - craft like this?

[Mathman]

NOW you say! See, all along I was thinking "give a beginner an easy tool" and I should have been saying "Go away; you're not good enough for my ship".

- anyone that can use the complicated ships doesn't need them anyway and anyone that can't has to sod off? Wonder if there'll be another attempt at - supplied as [stock] for beginners - craft like this?

Pecan: I couldn't agree with you more. A 'stock' item is something that needs little explanation to use and act as a building block. Like you say, if someone is experienced enough to use the complex ships, they can probably build their own. mathman

Edited July 14, 2014 by Mathman

[manni01]

I have 17 votes in. idk if there will more. should I announce the winner or wait til tuesday? if no reply I will wait.

[advil]

Pecan: I couldn't agree with you more. A 'stock' item is something that needs little explanation to use and act as a building block. Like you say, if someone is experienced enough to use the complex ships, they can probably build their own. mathman

With this change in discussion I would like to point out one thing though, and this is not an attempt to plug my own entry because I am considering the contest somewhat of a wash at this point. I did make a craft with multiple parts with docking ports so that somebody who has never done docking before could play around with it and learn how to dock the different objects together. This is, however, somewhat moot as anybody who has docked knows that once you are close enough to use RCS only the hard part is over. It's getting one object close enough to the other to actually target a specific docking port that is the most difficult. I think a stock craft that would be most useful to a beginner is one that could easily get one Kerbal safely to Mun and return home in one go. It is a quite common thing for a new player to get Jebediah stranded on Mun and lobby other players for how to get him home again.

[advil]

If any of you are interested I created a challenge for the above.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/85929-Stock-Challenge-To-da-Mun%21?p=1265290#post1265290

To da Mun!

[advil]

I have 17 votes in. idk if there will more. should I announce the winner or wait til tuesday? if no reply I will wait.

I'd say give it until Tuesday, but I'm curious who won now lol

[Sirine]

8, Manni01 "Reusable Adaper Tug MKIII Page 5

My vote as above.

My point of view.

http://www./download/2kkvrw6rm3c0wrm/Book1.xlsx

[advil]

My vote as above.

My point of view.

http://www./download/2kkvrw6rm3c0wrm/Book1.xlsx

What was the utility you had in mind by creating this spreadsheet that seems mostly based on your own opinion?

[Sirine]

What was the utility you had in mind by creating this spreadsheet that seems mostly based on your own opinion?

All previous "Better Stock Crafts Challenge" do have participants presenting their own ideal on how and why they vote for certain people, and they do put it in spreadsheets, with various 'technical data' base on their own judgement.

So, you want other to just shut up and vote? Or It just me.

[advil]

I have 17 votes in. idk if there will more. should I announce the winner or wait til tuesday? if no reply I will wait.

Not sure how we got that many votes unless there's a few people voting that haven't been involved in the thread at all.. or somebody is voting from multiple IP addresses...

[advil]

All previous "Better Stock Crafts Challenge" do have participants presenting their own ideal on how and why they vote for certain people, and they do put it in spreadsheets, with various 'technical data' base on their own judgement.

So, you want other to just shut up and vote? Or It just me.

I just don't see the point in the spreadsheet, I'm not sure how voting works other places but we don't have to explain or justify our vote where I'm from. Sorry if I offended you, I wasn't trying to be rude.

[Pecan]

My vote as above.

My point of view.

http://www./download/2kkvrw6rm3c0wrm/Book1.xlsx

Thanks for that. The only thing I'd disagree with, as a general point of design, is "too many RCS ports" - more adds control authority when pushing something heavy.

[Mathman]

Thanks for that. The only thing I'd disagree with, as a general point of design, is "too many RCS ports" - more adds control authority when pushing something heavy.

As a personal observation. I have found that more torque from your gyroscopes (at least 20 Nm for 36 ton load, 40 is better) allows only a few RCS jets to move things around quite well. Speed isn't necessary, just smoothness and patience. At least from my point of view. One designer to another.

[Mathman]

I just don't see the point in the spreadsheet, I'm not sure how voting works other places but we don't have to explain or justify our vote where I'm from. Sorry if I offended you, I wasn't trying to be rude.

I think I understand Sirine's point. Where judgement is based more on technical qualifications and less on popularity contest than the use of an editable spreadsheet which the scoring/judging committee can review can be most useful. It also allows misconceptions to be corrected by entrants. In our case where the originator has abandoned us, voting has turned into a popularity contest and a spreadsheet is not useful. Which is ok by me. Fun is in the design and the chat, not the award.

BTW: There were some misconceptions about my tug, the ARM. Apparently the .craft file was not found and certain assumptions were made which were incorrect. There is clipping in the vessel, but only what is available without the cheets. No external batteries were added because electrical demands were low and on board electrical storage from the command pod was sufficient (the command pod is stuck between the RCS fuel and the Reaction Wheel.) While the delta v with a 36 ton payload is only 33m/s the ARM was designed for orbital assembly, not inter-orbit transfer. That being said, after delivering a 36t payload to orbit 180 deg from the space station (same orbit), I was able to rendezvous with the space station and dock with 33 m/s delta v. It only takes finesse. BTW - the system was not meant for night docking but it will survive the night. Not trying to get people to vote for my tug. it is what it is. Just pointing out the strengths of a judging panel and an editable spreadsheet that everyone can review.

[Mathman]

Not sure how we got that many votes unless there's a few people voting that haven't been involved in the thread at all.. or somebody is voting from multiple IP addresses...

I RESEMBLE THAT IMPLICATION! (besides, I can't vote from work as I work as a civil servant behind a nice thick firewall)

[Sirine]

I dont know, but for me, mostly RCS are for fine docking movement. The SAS reaction wheel are for turning.

[Sirine]

I think I understand Sirine's point. Where judgement is based more on technical qualifications and less on popularity contest than the use of an editable spreadsheet which the scoring/judging committee can review can be most useful. It also allows misconceptions to be corrected by entrants. In our case where the originator has abandoned us, voting has turned into a popularity contest and a spreadsheet is not useful. Which is ok by me. Fun is in the design and the chat, not the award.

BTW: There were some misconceptions about my tug, the ARM. Apparently the .craft file was not found and certain assumptions were made which were incorrect. There is clipping in the vessel, but only what is available without the cheets. No external batteries were added because electrical demands were low and on board electrical storage from the command pod was sufficient (the command pod is stuck between the RCS fuel and the Reaction Wheel.) While the delta v with a 36 ton payload is only 33m/s the ARM was designed for orbital assembly, not inter-orbit transfer. That being said, after delivering a 36t payload to orbit 180 deg from the space station (same orbit), I was able to rendezvous with the space station and dock with 33 m/s delta v. It only takes finesse. BTW - the system was not meant for night docking but it will survive the night. Not trying to get people to vote for my tug. it is what it is. Just pointing out the strengths of a judging panel and an editable spreadsheet that everyone can review.

33m/s are a bit harsh for new player.