Interactive space agency thread: a proposal!

[unrepentantAuthor]

Actual thread now found here.

Hallo there. Because of my KSP experience, I have been mulling over the idea of giving my in-game direction up to community input. I expect I'd thrive on tasks and goals assigned by others, and as a writer who liked to craft a narrative around their missions, I expect at least some other forumites would show an interest in this story of a growing space agency! The notion is that I'll build craft and fly missions based on assignments given by other people posting in the thread, and then report on those missions as if they were part of an actual ahistorical space race. I'll work on a budget external to the game itself, most likely. Not sure yet about a tech tree. I'll post mainly write-ups but I'll consider videos, I'm sure.

I'm looking to work my way from basic missions to celestial bodies, to impressive orbital and planetary infrastructure, megacraft, working to restrictive specifications and other such things. Hopefully by the end I'll have built something memorably bizarre, created a narrative worth reading, and flown a return trip to Laythe with twenty tons of cargo aboard.

Before I get going with such a thread, though, I want to prepare for it properly. The major thing I haven't decided on is a mod list. I'm delighted by the vast array of mods out there but with such a huge list of mods, I'm paralysed by indecision. So, I thought - why not ask the forum? I'm looking for a balance between gameplay and realism, and opportunities for narrative.

Provisional Mod List:

Features and Improvements:

• MechJeb
  
• NEAR
  
• Karbonite
  
• Infernal Robotics
  
• Final Frontier
  
• Deadly Reentry
  
• TAC Life Support
  
• TAC Fuel Balancer
  
• TAC Atomic Clock
  
• TAC Part Lister
  
• Kerbal Attachment System
  
• SCANsat
  
• RemoteTech 2
  
• Enhanced Navball
  
• Navball Docking Alignment Indicator
  
• Alarm Clock
  
• Ship Manifest
  
• Chatterer
  
• RealChute
  
• SurfaceNodes
  
• Module Manager
  
• Mission Controller Extended
  
• Toolbar
  
• Action Group Manager
  
• Alternate Resource Panel
  
• Joint Reinforcement
  
• Dang It!
  
• EVA Parachutes
  
• Fine Print
  
• DebRefund
  
• PartCatalog
  
• ScienceAlert
  

Parts:

• KW Rocketry
  
• B9 Aerospace
  
• Near Future (when it supports 64bit)
  
• RLA
  
• KSPX
  
• Bahamuto Dynamics
  
• Procedural Fairings
  
• FusTek Station Parts
  
• 6S Service Compartments
  
• Caterpillar Tracks
  
• Habitat Pack
  
• CELSS Greenhouse
  
• Eddie Low Profile Engines
  
• ALCOR
  
• Hooligan Labs
  
• USI Kolonization Systems
  
• Universal Storage
  
• Spaceplane Plus
  
• DMagic Orbital Science
  
• Panda Jager Laboratories Parts Pack
  
• Firespitter
  
• Bavarian Aerospace: Tubes
  
• THSS
  

Graphical:

• Diverse Kerbal Heads
  
• J's Specialized Kerbal Suit Pack
  
• Active Texture Management
  
• RasterPropMonitor
  
• Environmental Visual Enhancements
  

Mods I will not be using:

• Real Solar System
  
• Scaled-up Kerbol system
  
• Historical parts packs
  
• Mods attributable to other franchises (i.e. no star trek or star wars parts)
  
• Military or weapon mods of any kind - this is a civilian space agency!
  
• Significant setting changes. I might consider additional planets beyond Eeloo if there is sufficient demand.
  

Any suggestions for how to run the actual thread are very much appreciated. I'm currently considering how best to facilitate members assigning missions and my budget. It works, in my head at least, by having each member who posts in that capacity be part of the agency's board of directors, with some funding they can offer. Members can propose a mission (put a kethane scanning satellite in a polar orbit) or project (replicate the Apollo Program!) and assign funding, or contribute their funding to an existing proposal. This way, the more call there is for me to complete a particular project, the easier it will be for me to do so, given the expanded budget. I've not yet determined if this will be the case or how the details would work, though!

Here's hoping this interests people!

Thanks for reading!

Edited August 1, 2014 by unrepentantAuthor

[Tortoise]

FAR is a must imo.

Also, get:

Infernal Robotics

TAC Life Support

Deadly Re-entry (if u want, its good to have both FAR & DRE)

Kethane

ScanSAT

Kerbal Engineer Redux

Remotetech 2 (its gonna be hard though xD)

[dryer_lint]

Seems like a cool idea! I'd like to see this!

Also, FAR + DRE + Life Support? Is this like the triangle of hardmode KSP?

[unrepentantAuthor]

The traditional hardmode, it seems. There are other life support choices, there's Dang It! and there's RealChutes, among other things. I'm ambitious, I guess.

Thanks to both of you.

[Pecan]

Pleased to see someone else who wants to write a meaningful narrative of their KSP missions. The tutorial in my signature was designed specifically to be a full-length narrative following a logical progression, although it focuses on the vehicle construction and design rather than the flights themselves. (Proof reading STILL required, if you can bring yourself to it).

Your core mods look like a good set. You might want to consider Ship Manifest instead of Crew Manifest - it does fuel and other resources as well - or add TAC fuel balancer if you feel the need. Enhanced navball has always seemed a bit underwhelming to me too whereas the NavballDockingAlignmentIndicator (Get An Abbreviation!) is really useful. Or just use Navyfish's original. Kerbquake is another and fairly new visual enhancement mod you might like, with the others you list in mind. Final Frontier I don't know, but isn't there a hint of StarTrek there?

On your 'uncertains' I can definitely recommend SCANSat; it adds a lot of purpose for satellites without making anything harder. RT2, on the other hand, is fun "in itself" but can take a lot of work, especially at the start. I suppose it comes down to how awkward you want to make it for yourself - FAR, DRE, Dang It and Construction Time are in the same category; good, but you'll have to change the way you play. The life-support mods may fall into this category as well but there is a bit of variation amongst them as to how onerous the extra considerations will be. With some you can just add a "life support" grab-bag and more or less forget them, others will need constant attention. Kethane, KAS and IR are really up to you. Certainly if you've got Kethane then KAS is a useful addition but while I love the idea of building 'interesting things' with KAS/IR I never actually have wanted to! They give you the option anyway so they're probably, 'probably'. Joint reinforcement I've never needed and Interstallar/colonisation fall into parts-packs as far as I can see. Nice, but there's no easy "reason" that you can get from Kethane.

I'd leave out scaled-up mods just as you have RSS. At the other extreme RealChutes and EPL will make things both easier and more interesting.

So, finally, tech tree.

Why?

0.24 is going to change the whole career mode so it could be interesting but until we see what it offers why confine yourself to a different way of doing things? Career mode as it is just means grind-for-science and all those mods will be pretty pointless. Best to say sandbox and just let the adventure evolve, or commit to 0.24's whatever :-)

PS: On MJ and info mods: There's a lot of overlap in the information that MJ, KER and VOID can display. More and more I find that I'm using MJ and not KER (especially since MJ can also show deltaV/TWR for other bodies in the VAB/SPH now) but VOID is a relative newcomer that's getting a lot of positive press. You might like to look at that one.

[cantab]

How about a system changing mod? Alternis Kerbol looks cool but I'm not sure if it's .23.5 compatible. Otherwise maybe Planetfactory CE and pick an interesting pack or two.

As for parts, an idea that springs to mind is to take a general-purpose parts pack or two, but remove the stock parts. Make it more unique and challenging, especially if you aren't familiar with the mods; you can't retreat to your familiar engines any more.

Personally I've taken a real liking to the Vertical Propulsion Emporium mod, a kind of Victorian/steampunk style parts pack. It's pretty comprehensive, so using just the VPE parts would be feasible and create a really different experience.

[robopilot99]

RLA stockalike! Once you use it you'll never leave the launchpad without it!

[unrepentantAuthor]

Thanks to all of you!

Pecan - I spotted your campaign earlier yesterday, and found it interesting. I think I may go investigate it at some point today. As for your advice, I'll be taking Ship Manifest and the NDAI, thank you for those. Final Frontier's name alludes to Star Trek, but it consists of a system that awards medals to Kerbals for their missions completed, not Enterprise parts or Starfleet logos. Your commentary on my 'uncertain' list is helpful and I'll bear it in mind - I think I may as well take the full set of 'hard mode' mods given the kind of campaign I'm aiming for. Lastly, your argument regarding the tech tree is essentially what I'd been feeling to begin with, but wasn't sure about committing to. This settles the issue - no in-game tech progression. Thanks again.

Cantab - those are pretty excellent ideas for a campaign but they mesh poorly with the vision I had for this one. I appreciate the suggestion, but they'll be waiting for another day.

robopilot99 - that actually looks pretty sweet, I might take it. Cheers.

[Sky_walker]

• Ferram Aerospace
  
• Deadly Reentry
  

Pretty much mandatory considering how broken these things are in a stock game.

[Streetwind]

Have a look at Near Future Technologies. It's a bunch of part packs that work both stand-alone and in any combination together. Depending on your tastes, you can get advanced electric engines, new batteries and solar panels, nuclear reactors, large-scale girder trusses and more. Thematically it aims in a similar direction as KSP Interspellar, but confines itself to the eponymous "near future" rather than going deep into speculative tech. It also stays much closer to the stock experience and balance than KSPI, which changes and adds many things that are exclusive to itself.

A big draw in Near Future for me is the incredible model, texture and effect work; some of the engines even have custom sounds that will give you goosebumps when you fire them up for the first time (especially if you have a good subwoofer...). And just look at those avant-garde solar panels! If you run into memory issues, all downloads include optional low-res textures.

If you decide to run in career mode, Near Future also offers a (optional, as all of them) techtree module that expands the very end of the stock tree. For the largest part of the playthrough you won't even notice a difference, or much in the way of Near Future parts around, but at the end it continues onwards a lot deeper. It requires a good batch of extra science to finish in full (meaning, you actually have to go beyond Kerbin's SoI to get enough).

[unrepentantAuthor]

That's a fantastic advertisement for Near future, Streetwind. I'm convinced enough! I like the sound of it better than Interstellar, certainly.

I see the thread's been moved, and while the reasoning for it is obvious, I do feel contentious about it. How do I identify and contact the appropriate mod? Not that it's a significant issue!

[Streetwind]

Reason for moving is probably the fact that Squad wants all mod-centric threads to sit in the modding section. It's not a problem if a mod is mentioned somewhere in General Discussion, but if it's clearly a mod-centric post like this one that exists for the sole purpose of discussing modding, then it goes into Add-On Affairs.

The reason they are doing this is because General Discussion is by far the highest traffic forum already. It's what many people default to when making a new thread, either because they're not even looking at the rest of the forum, or because they intentionally want the higher exposure, or because they simply have no idea where their thread could fit thematically. However, this causes General Discussion to become overloaded, unfocused and unmanageable. This is especially confusing to the majority of KSP players who actually do not play with mods.

Of course, since you're talking about producing a series, you might also have found this thread wander into KSP Fan Works instead And that's where your actual mission reports will end up, no matter where you create the thread.

[unrepentantAuthor]

True enough. This one probably belongs in fan-works due to its intended outcome more than anything, but I don't suppose I can move it myself. Not that it's of consequence - I'm probably going to force myself to decide on mods and rules before I get any more commentary in here, and start the actual thread in fanworks. Thanks for the clarification.

In case anyone sees this before then, I'd be delighted to hear advice on running and regulating the whole budget/mission assignment component. Cheers.

[Ippo]

• Dang It!
  

*_*

1) Thanks!

2) Not to bash my own work, but you might want to wait for alpha 3 before taking on a project this big

[unrepentantAuthor]

Looks like a lot of things are incompatible with Ferram! Anyone fancy clearing up for me how 'worth it' Ferram is, and how it would change this game?

Fair enough, Ippo. I've not seen any similar mods and I'd be delighted to have a failure system of some kind, but I'm considering the impact that part lifetime could have on a longterm project and feeling a bit uncertain.

[Ippo]

Fair enough, Ippo. I've not seen any similar mods and I'd be delighted to have a failure system of some kind, but I'm considering the impact that part lifetime could have on a longterm project and feeling a bit uncertain.

Exactly: until I manage to finish alpha 3, you will have NO means of servicing a station to increase the lifespan, and basically one day the only option becomes taking it down and launching another one. Now, in the current build I've tried to make multi years missions possible: so you can safely leave a space station on its own for a long time, but not indefinitely. Also, upgrading later means that you could be stuck with a failed engine and no mechanic to fix it.

Personally, I'd say to wait to install my mod until I push the next update... which will be Soon. I have most things ready, so I'm pretty confident it will be here within 2 weeks.

[unrepentantAuthor]

I'm away for two weeks starting on the eleventh. I might get a post in before I leave, but no more than one or two missions in the game, I'm sure. I can fictionalise a bunch of abstracted 'failed launches' in those reports, which effectively allows me to wait for your alpha 3 with no particular obstacle or delay to my original plan. I'd like to discuss what comprises that version exactly, though.

[Ippo]

Anyone is welcome to visit the issue tracker where I'll be posting bugs, features, and what is going in each milestone

And anyone is welcome to contribute to it if you find a bug or think I missed some feature

[Streetwind]

Looks like a lot of things are incompatible with Ferram! Anyone fancy clearing up for me how 'worth it' Ferram is, and how it would change this game?

How exactly are things incompatible with FAR? It's simply a mod that replaces some parts of the physics engine. Even mods that are explicitly dealing with adding in-atmosphere features, like Deadly Reentry, are perfectly okay with this. The only "incompatibility" I could possibly imagine would be another mod also attempting to change the same parts of the physics engine, and to my knowledge, no such mod exists at this time.

If you're having trouble getting the game to launch or run stable, then try describing the issue you're seeing in more detail so we can troubleshoot it better.

[unrepentantAuthor]

MechJeb reportedly calculates incorrectly when used with FAR, due to being based on the vanilla model. Some other mods apparently cause issues such as a game crash if you use certain parts. I haven't done my spree of download and installation yet, so I've not tested this myself.

[Streetwind]

Ah. I've never used MechJeb myself - I use KER, unsure if it detects FAR or not.

[unrepentantAuthor]

I'm fairly busy tomorrow and I'm on holiday for two weeks starting Friday, but I'll see about putting that enormous list of mods into my game and seeing how it works. Perhaps I'll test out FAR - but it looks virtually impossible to design and fly planes in that damn mod. (And yet, my mind insists I give myself decent aerodynamics and suck it up...) I'm still thinking about how to run the meta element of the thread, with budgets and assignments and the like. Plus, looks like 0.24 might be out before I return, so depending on how that turns out (particularly with the budget feature...) I may wait a little longer for all those mods to become compatible or I may not bother with 0.24 for the time being. Uncertainty!

Edited July 9, 2014 by unrepentantAuthor

[cantab]

MechJeb reportedly calculates incorrectly when used with FAR, due to being based on the vanilla model.

Calculates what incorrectly though? The Delta-V and TWR of a given rocket isn't affected by FAR (though the figures you want are), and of course all the space navigation tools could care less if the atmosphere was turned into footballs.

[unrepentantAuthor]

Downloaded my absurd list of mods today. It was an arduous task, and I have no time to test everything out. However, it appears my computer doesn't complain terribly that I have them installed. It was a rush job while tired, so I think I made some installation mistakes - Toolbar accused me of installing it incorrectly, and there was a graphical error with Kerbin on the main menu. Nevertheless, these are promising signs, gentlemen. I know I can run some approximation of all the nonsense I want to run!

Additionally, I have elected to use FAR. Gods help me.

Edited July 10, 2014 by unrepentantAuthor

[Streetwind]

Good choice - you now get to find out how good you are at gravity turns. FAR punishes bad habits and teaches you to do it right (or rather, it removes the parts of stock KSP that encourage bad piloting habits).

If you are already doing it properly now, you won't notice much of a difference - if anything, you'll get up there easier and smoother. But if not, your first few gravity turns will certainly be... "interesting" Should make for good story material anyhow.