Orbit the planet?

[cjameshuff]

But... maintaining orientation is easy, and, once in orbit, only relevant for like quarter-seconds if that.

It's relevant for tens of seconds if trying to do a precision burn, and multiple orbits if you're using the navball as a time-of-orbit indicator.

And yet, you haul a third of a tank's worth of utterly dead weight to orbit with you... I know which one has the bigger performance penalty.

Except it's not dead weight, while winglets would be.

EDIT: In fact, here's a test. I used my SSTO triple tank, LFE, chuteless layout. Tested without stabilisers of any kind, with the paired winglets the original design has, and with a SAS module. The SAS module required use of a decoupler to dodge the sticky-pad bug, but the decoupler was fired at the beginning of the trip and consequently did not materially affect the results.

Your 'test' is completely irrelevant. SAS is useful in orbit, winglets are not.

[foamyesque]

It's relevant for tens of seconds if trying to do a precision burn, and multiple orbits if you're using the navball as a time-of-orbit indicator.

In tens of seconds at even 'barely on' thrust you can shift your orbit by a hundred kilometers. Exactly what are you trying to do here?

[Also, with an additional 0.8t of fuel, you can fix precision errors without any trouble at all.]

[cjameshuff]

In tens of seconds at even 'barely on' thrust you can shift your orbit by a hundred kilometers. Exactly what are you trying to do here?

Shift my orbit by a hundred kilometers, or by a thousand. Do a large Hohmann transfer. Do a plane change. Do a precision reentry. Eventually, transfer into orbit around another body.

[Also, with an additional 0.8t of fuel, you can fix precision errors without any trouble at all.]

So what? The SAS module makes it easier to avoid introducing the error in the first place.

[foamyesque]

Shift my orbit by a hundred kilometers, or by a thousand. Do a large Hohmann transfer. Do a plane change. Do a precision reentry. Eventually, transfer into orbit around another body.

All of which can be readily accomplished by simple manual control with a very minor (<m/s) trim burn on the end. =/

So what? The SAS module makes it easier to avoid introducing the error in the first place.

You'll have to trim anyways, though. More t'the point, a CP SAS is perfectly adequate to dampen out orientation shifts when coupled with precision mode.

[Arelfel]

I've been planning ahead and trying to design rockets that can either lift a heavy load into orbit, or transfer from Kearth's orbit to another body's orbit. Launching a rocket of this size needs more then just the CP's SAS :|

[kurohone]

Everything is about compromise. I followed foamyesque's advice and stripped out the SAS on the atmosphere-bound booster stages, replacing them with winglets. In not only increased performance, the stability was markedly improved as well!

However, I still use SAS on the upper stages to help with orientation in space, particularly on the final stage. I just find oienting a CM/LTF/LFE to require more precision than I can do on my own without that SAS to act as an assist.

[foamyesque]

I've been planning ahead and trying to design rockets that can either lift a heavy load into orbit, or transfer from Kearth's orbit to another body's orbit. Launching a rocket of this size needs more then just the CP's SAS :|

Which is fine and fair. I use some-- but only some-- SAS on my heavier designs, too. It's the '30 SAS isn't working? WHAT ABOUT 33!' school of design I object to. =/

[CriticalDog]

Well, I finally managed my first orbit.

It was ugly as sin, and I didn't have enough juice left to bump myself out of the orbit.

Perigee : about 160k

Apogee: about 1500k

I have a HUGE problem with control. Even a small rocket, with minimal bells and whistles still tends to tumble out of control the moment I try to angle over for orbit.

But now that I've done it once, I know I can do it again. Woo hoo!

[Tychonaut]

I was starting to doubt I would ever get Jeb and crew into a stable orbit. On what I swore would be my last attempt, success!

Not a pretty orbit, by any means, with perikerb at 53 km and apokerb at 352 km, but at least they aren't going to burn up or run out of oxygen waiting to come back. Even had enough fuel left for a re-entry burn.

Bill and Bob still look terrified, though. I don't think they believe they've survived.

[rdfox]

Bill and Bob are terrified any time the g-loading isn't precisely zero, or they're travelling faster than the speed of sound...

[Tychonaut]

They should really have some nice mellow tunes playing in the capsule to calm those two down.

Of course, maybe they tried that, but some twisted tech put the stereo controls in front of Jeb, and he's a fan of 'Friday'...

Trying to get anywhere in one of these ships with the brothers still alive reminds me of a pertinent quote from Serenity: 'This is the captain. We have a little problem with our entry sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and then - explode.'

[rdfox]

They should really have some nice mellow tunes playing in the capsule to calm those two down.

Just be careful what you choose. It could end up being the Allman Brothers' 'Jessica,' which won't calm down anyone who's ever seen a certain BBC series...

On tonight's programme... I set myself on fire... Richard crashes a muscle car... and James gratuitously falls over!