Ion glider collier trophy!

[GoSlash27]

This challenge was suggested as a preliminary to another challenge, so I'll post it here.

We're looking to establish speed and altitude records for "all- wing" ion gliders, in hopes that somebody will eventually succeed in putting one in orbit.

The rules:

-Stock parts only.

-Stock physics only.

-Aircraft may only be powered by ion drive. No RCS thrusters allowed for any purpose.

-Aircraft are permitted the use of 1 control surface for use as a rudder, but it must be vertical. It must be locked during submitted runs.

-All lift is to be provided by "wing" or "winglet" in any amount or configuration you choose, but "controlled wings and surfaces" are disallowed except as above.

-No using loopholes in the physics, such as GOAP drive, kraken drive, infiniglide, Reaction wheel copters, etc.

-No staging allowed. The entire assembly must remain intact throughout the run. Likewise, no mid-air refueling or catapult launches. *ADDENDUM*: Staging for the purpose of boarding manned flights is allowed (decoupling a capsule containing a pilot for boarding a command chair), but the vehicle must be stationary on the runway after the staging event.

-Flights must start on the runway at KSC. You may elect to take off in any direction you choose, or even circle above KSC if that's your preference.

-You may use all the physics-free parts you want, but bonus points of 10% will be awarded to entries that use no stand- alone batteries.

Scoring:

Entries will be ranked by a) maximum altitude achieved and maximum groundspeed (or orbital velocity, as applicable). There will be separate categories for manned and unmanned aircraft. Photos of runs submitted for ranking should be provided in this thread, and copies of the entry aircraft made available for verification.

Good luck and somebody *please* make orbit!

-Slashy

Leaderboards

KSP 0.25

Rank / user name/ ship name / record

Kollier trophy for Ion pure wing speed (Manned):

1) Tsevion "Ionic Symphony XI" 77x70 KM Orbit achieved <-- First to achieve orbit!

2) Tsevion "Ionic Symphony IX" 2,124 M/sec

3) Tsevion "Ionic Symphony VIII" 2,000 M/sec <-- First to break the 2K barrier!

4) GoSlash27 "X-12B Kthulu" 1,938 M/sec

5) MabDeno "Triple Dart" 1,890 M/sec

6) The Rocketeer "Shrike III" 1,284 M/sec

7) GoSlash27 "YERTL 2" 1,271 M/sec

8) The Rocketeer "Shrike II" 1,003 M/sec <-- First to break the 1K barrier!

9) The Rocketeer "Shrike I" 686 M/sec

10) Syhrus "I-Flier" 494 M/sec

Kollier trophy for Ion pure wing altitude (Manned):

1) Tsevion "Ionic Symphony XI" 77x70 KM Orbit achieved <-- First to achieve orbit!

2) Tsevion "Ionic Symphony IX" 70,459 M <-- First in space!

3) Tsevion "Ionic Symphony VIII" 53,271 M <-- First to break the 40KM barrier!

4) MabDeno "TripleDart" 40,301 M

5) GoSlash27 "X-12B Kthulu" 39,152

6) The_Rocketeer "Shrike III" 32,006 +10% battery- free <-- First to break the 30KM barrier!

7) GoSlash27 "YERTL 2" 31,340 +10% battery- free

8 The_Rocketeer "Shrike II" 29,717 +10% battery- free

9 The_Rocketeer "Shrike I" 26,621 +10% battery- free

10) The_Rocketeer "BION II" 25,369 +10% battery- free

Kollier trophy for Ion pure wing speed (unmanned):

1) MabDeno "Double Delta" 146x88KM orbit achieved! +10% battery- free <-- First to achieve orbit!

2) GoSlash27 "Voyager III" 74x72KM orbit achieved! +10% battery- free

3) GoSlash27 "Voyager II" 2,294 M/sec +10% battery- free

4) GoSlash27 "Voyager 1" 2,152 M/sec +10% battery- free <-- First to break the 2K barrier!

5) MabDeno (No name given) 1,992 M/Sec +10% battery- free

6) GoSlash27 "Spirit of Kerbin City" 1,858 M/sec +10% battery- free

7) MabDeno "Bi-Triplane" 1,203 M/Sec +10% battery- free <-- First to break the 1K barrier!

8) MabDeno "Kuttle Fish" 939 M/Sec +10% battery- free

9) Lesto "ione2Battery" 930 M/Sec

10) Viragos (no name given) 760 M/sec +10% battery- free

Kollier trophy for Ion pure wing altitude(unmanned):

1) MabDeno "Double Delta" 146x88KM orbit achieved! +10% battery- free <-- First to achieve orbit!

2) GoSlash27 "Voyager III" 74x72 KM orbit achieved! +10% battery- free<-- First all-wing ion glider in space!

3) GoSlash27 "Voyager II" 67,815M +10% battery- free

4) GoSlash27 "Voyager 1" 46,759M +10% battery- free <-- First to break the 40KM barrier!

5) MabDeno (no name given) 44,841M +10% battery- free

6) GoSlash27 "Spirit of Kerbin City" 37,082M +10% battery-free

7) MabDeno "Bi- triplane" 31,974M +10% battery- free <-- First to break the 30KM barrier!

8) MabDeno "Kuttle Fish" 27,430M +10% battery- free

9) Viragos (no name given) 25,858 +10% battery- free

10) Lesto "ione2battery" 25,940M

Kollier trophy for Ion pure wing speed (Manned):

1)Monthar "Snoopy's Doghouse" 51.8 m/sec +10% battery- free

2)Monthar "The Red Baron" 48.4 m/sec +10% battery- free

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Kollier trophy for Ion pure wing altitude (Manned):

1) Monthar "The Red Baron" 7,262 M +10% battery- free

2) Monthar "Snoopy's Doghouse" 1,890 M +10% battery- free

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Kollier trophy for Ion pure wing speed (unmanned):

1) GoSlash27 "Living Dead Cat Mk.1" 1,455 M/sec +10% battery- free

2) GoSlash27 "Gaylord's Fokker" 1,388 M/sec +10% battery- free

3) Tsevion "How Ionic VII" 1,123 M/sec +10% battery- free

4) Tsevion "How Ionic VI" 1,022 M/sec <--First to break the 1K barrier!

5) GoSlash27 "Manta II" 831 M/sec +10% battery- free

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Kollier trophy for Ion pure wing altitude(unmanned):

1) GoSlash27 "Living Dead Cat Mk.1" 34,450 M +10% battery- free

2) GoSlash27 "Gaylord's Fokker" 33,221 M +10% battery- free <--First to break the 30 KM barrier!

3) Tsevion "How Ionic VII" 30,628 M +10% battery- free

4) GoSlash27 "Manta II" 29,015 M +10% battery- free

5) Tsevion "How Ionic VI" 29,319 M

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Honorable Mention

1) Yakky "Ion Ultralight" Achieved 79x225 orbit ... FAR aerodynamics used

Edited November 18, 2014 by GoSlash27

[Morthgal_dwarf]

I would do this but i've got FAR... ill still try it tho!

[GoSlash27]

I'll go first to get the ball rolling.

831 M/sec @ 29KM altitude.

Launch profile for this run:

After takeoff, accelerate to 50 M/sec

Increase pitch to maintain 50 M/sec until 17 degrees is achieved.

Maintain 17 degrees pitch until end of run.

manta 2.craft

Edited July 13, 2014 by GoSlash27

[Kokanee]

Here is my entry for a manned ion glider;

[GoSlash27]

Kokanee,

Sorry, but entries cannot have any kind of controlled wing or surface on them other than a single vertical rudder. The advanced canards disqualify this one.

-Slashy

[Tsevion]

Well, I've played around, can't quite beat you, but here's a similar entry. Zero control surfaces.

Maximum speed: 830 m/s

Maximum altitude: 25656m

Javascript is disabled. View full album

[Tsevion]

Maximum speed: 830 m/s

Maximum altitude: 25656m

Alrighty, I've actually beaten this, essentially by just adding some more wings and tanks to this craft, my current record is:

1022 m/s at 29319m, gonna see if I can do even better before a full post.

Here's a craft file of my current best though, if anyone wants to play around and add more to it: How Ionic VI

[GoSlash27]

That's one milestone down and very close to another. Way to go!

I'll wait for your post before filling in your stats.

[Laie]

-All lift is to be provided by "wing" or "winglet" in any amount or configuration you choose, but "controlled wings and surfaces" are disallowed except as above.

Simple question: will the delta-deluxe with locked control surface be acceptable? It's called "winglet" after all.

Better question: I've heard about infiniglide before and suspect this rule is meant to prevent it. I don't quite know what it is or how it works, though. Would you explain what this rule really is about?

[gmiddlemass]

Here's my effort...

49,881m and 1772.9m/s

It's a design that I made for a previous challenge but never bothered posting, hopefully it will be acceptable as the control surfaces on the delta wings are disabled.

Hope the pictures work as I've never posted before. Not sure how to post the craft file but I am happy to do so if someone can tell me how.

Gordon

[GoSlash27]

Simple question: will the delta-deluxe with locked control surface be acceptable? It's called "winglet" after all.

Better question: I've heard about infiniglide before and suspect this rule is meant to prevent it. I don't quite know what it is or how it works, though. Would you explain what this rule really is about?

It would be acceptable, but it can't be your wing. You can only use one, it must be vertical, and it must be locked.

The reason we chose this rule is because any control surface as a wing will exhibit "infiniglide" properties, even if the designer tries very hard to not have it present. See GMiddlemass's entry below.

We already know that ion gliders can make orbit with control surfaces as wings. This is to see what can be accomplished without them.

Best,

-Slashy

gmiddlemass,

Sadly, we cannot accept this entry. Control surfaces cannot be used as wings in this competition. You are permitted the use of one control surface as a rudder, and it must be locked.

Best,

-Slashy

[gmiddlemass]

Before I rebuild, would the "AV-T1 Winglet" or the "Tail Fin" be acceptable (as they have no control surfaces) or does it have to be one of the "structural" or swept wings?

[GoSlash27]

Before I rebuild, would the "AV-T1 Winglet" or the "Tail Fin" be acceptable (as they have no control surfaces) or does it have to be one of the "structural" or swept wings?

Either of those would be fine.

Best,

-Slashy

[GoSlash27]

I just upped the game *evil grin*...

My new unofficial record is 1,402 m/sec @ 33,501 m.

I'll post an official entry tomorrow.

Edited July 16, 2014 by GoSlash27

[rtxoff]

I brought up an minimalistic ion glider into LKO with an modified ION Engine. Only modification was increasing the thrust from 2 to 10.

Considering how hard it was to go into space with such an powerfull engine i highly doubt if it's ever going to be possible with an unmodified one which has only 20% of it's thrust.

Even if someone make it, EVE orbit is impossible for sure.

[GoSlash27]

New record is 1,387.8 m/sec @ 33,221 m. 10% battery-free bonus.

focker.craft

[Tsevion]

Well, here's my latest entry... didn't improve too much, but here it is: The How Ionic VII

Top Speed and top altitude were two different runs but they are:

Top Speed: 1123 m/s

Top Altitude: 30628 m

And in this version I use no batteries... so 10% bonus

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Craft File

I think this is my last attempt for the time being... gotta get back to making videos and 0.24 coming out and such.

[GoSlash27]

Welp...

My latest design is an improvement over the current record, but "I'm disappointed. Not terribly, but still... it should've gone much further, much faster..." <--- old school nerd reference

New unofficial record is 1,475@ 34 K.

[Pds314]

It would be acceptable, but it can't be your wing. You can only use one, it must be vertical, and it must be locked.

The reason we chose this rule is because any control surface as a wing will exhibit "infiniglide" properties, even if the designer tries very hard to not have it present. See GMiddlemass's entry below.

We already know that ion gliders can make orbit with control surfaces as wings. This is to see what can be accomplished without them.

Best,

-Slashy

gmiddlemass,

Sadly, we cannot accept this entry. Control surfaces cannot be used as wings in this competition. You are permitted the use of one control surface as a rudder, and it must be locked.

Best,

-Slashy

May we use FAR and control surfaces?

[GoSlash27]

Diminishing returns are setting in...

34,450M @ 1,454.7 M/sec

Living Dead Cat Mk.1

May we use FAR and control surfaces?

[thereaverofdarkness]

I made an attempt and failed miserably. One thing I'm confused on is how you guys get up to speed with so little Xenon. I had to really pile it on because even with 8 engines my craft could barely get going very fast, and would climb very slowly. I got up to 12,500m so didn't bother even posting, and besides I would have been disqualified for the use of control surfaces. I wasn't infinigliding, I just needed them to get off the runway in one piece.

Slashy, I made my own ion glider challenge with looser restrictions in an attempt to free up a bit of creativity. Perhaps with a bit of practice on something easier, rookies like me can begin to understand the dynamics of placing on one of your more difficult challenges. I may yet surprise you!

[GoSlash27]

We're doing it through very careful attention to weight and balance (especially weight!!) and a ridiculous amount of trial and error with recordkeeping. These things accelerate painfully slowly in the lower atmosphere and don't really make much speed until they get up above 20KM or so.

If you can beat this challenge, you'll be well on your way to making something that'll work on Eve.

Good luck!

-Slashy

[Laie]

How do you guys even do it?

Lift from wings appears to break down around 25km. The steadily decreasing climb rate may take me to ~30km, but that's about it. There seems to be a tipping point around 33km, where your increasing orbital velocity begins to help with lifting. I made it to that point a few times, but never much farther. Even getting there is hard enough.

[GoSlash27]

How do you guys even do it?

Lift from wings appears to break down around 25km. The steadily decreasing climb rate may take me to ~30km, but that's about it. There seems to be a tipping point around 33km, where your increasing orbital velocity begins to help with lifting. I made it to that point a few times, but never much farther. Even getting there is hard enough.

You're doing it right. It seems to be a balancing act between wings, engines, and fuel. Getting the proportions closer to "ideal" gives you some gains, but not much.

Best,

-Slashy

[Laie]

This represents my two most recent attempts: altitude and climbrate vs. missiontime. More wings gave me less climb early on, more in he end, but ultimately it made no difference whats-o-ever. Both vessels made ~800m/s at 31km.

In the prescriptions for one of your craft, you state one should maintain a 17° pitch. Why? I always thought the ideal AoA was 22.5°.