0.24's Cost-Effective Lifters Challenge

[Slugy]

Also as a stupid question: How do you do those cool albums that can be flipped through? I just know how to put each image in the post but that takes up a lot of space...

You make the album, in that style, in imgur, then put just the e.g. L3PjX bit in [ imgur ] [ /imgur ] tags, without spaces ofc.

Nice result with the lifter, be interesting to see how low the cost will go.

[r_rolo1]

I did try a large SRB as a mainstage with some RT10s, but had trouble getting a nice velocity during ascent - you may be right though. Let us know!

Yeah, without tweakables it is quite hard to get a satisfying result ... and even with them

I've been trying in the lower mass part of the spectrum, but the lack of a solid rocket somewhere in between the RT-10 and the Sepraton is grating. But the tests on using sepratons as orbiting burners gave some interesting results:

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I think that, for small payloads, using sepratons as orbiting burners are a nice solution at a very reasonable cost, but getting a good ascent solid only booster is hard :/ In this example I would definitely exchange the RT-10 for something with half of the propulsive power and half of the weight ...

[Norcurion]

Simply rightclick the SRB in the VAB , set the throttle to half and the Fuel (the BACC for example costs only 190, the Fuel makes up the rest of the 510 Funds)

[Pecan]

Ummm.... Those are NOT the KR-2L those are the LFB KR 1x2. Haha

You are absolutely correct. Serves me right for not paying attention.

[NikkyD]

We should add a category... without boosters! That would throw everybody off their game.

[Mesklin]

Two my very cheap lifters:

First one - "Tavrida"

Stats:

Payload mass - 10.32 t

Payload delivery cost - 1088 Kr/t

Payload fraction - 10.6%

Stages - 3 (first 2 stages - solid fuel, last one - liquid fuel)

Rocket cost without payload - 11225 Kr

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Second one - Tavrida x2 (added some steroids for growing )

Stats:

Payload mass - 26.17 t

Payload delivery cost - 1144 Kr/t

Payload fraction - 11.1%

Stages - 3 (first 2 stages - solid fuel, last one - liquid fuel)

Rocket cost without payload - 29 943 Kr

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[r_rolo1]

Simply rightclick the SRB in the VAB , set the throttle to half and the Fuel (the BACC for example costs only 190, the Fuel makes up the rest of the 510 Funds)

Ok, I wasn't clear enough I would like something with half of the RT-10 fuel, half of it's thrust, half of its weight ( including dry mass ) and ( optionally ) half of it's price, preferably with similar Isp . Notice that the RT-10 is roughly equivalent to a LV-T30 + FT-L400 in terms of potential dV and that the sepratron is ... well, weaksauce even compared with the small liquid engines ( even because it has a dismal Isp ). There is absolutely no SRB that is roughly equivalent to a LV-909 + a FL-200 ( a half loaded RT-10 will still have the full dry mass, making it far worse ... and let's not talk of the price ) and was what I needed for second stage of my rocket

Oh and if you see my imgur album, I made clear that I had done exactly what you said

[Slugy]

Two my very cheap lifters:

First one - "Tavrida"

Stats:

Payload mass - 10.32 t

Payload delivery cost - 1088 Kr/t

Payload fraction - 10.6%

Stages - 3 (first 2 stages - solid fuel, last one - liquid fuel)

Rocket cost without payload - 11225 Kr

Now that's an impressive delivery cost.

Will under 1000 Kr/t be possible I wonder.

[NikkyD]

@Mesklin

Your rockets do ONLY work if the payload has torque to control the ascent AND you used custom parts as well

[Slugy]

Here's something with lower cost but lower payload fraction.

351.476 tons

39.49 tons payload = 11.2%

√45394.5 cost

1149.5/ton

http://i.imgur.com/LLUdyxU.jpg

bhauth.com/files/big_dumb_booster.zip

This one seems to have been overlooked!

Although more pics necessary.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Slugy

[Slugy]

@Mesklin

Your rockets do ONLY work if the payload has torque to control the ascent AND you used custom parts as well

Which are the custom parts?

Payload is allowed to have torque - and in general payloads will, although it could be open to abuse...

[NikkyD]

Which are the custom parts?

Payload is allowed to have torque - and in general payloads will, although it could be open to abuse...

The whole cockpit is non standard ?!

I'm having trouble with the ruleset here. Decoupler can be part of the payload so you dont have to pay for it... payload can have torque...

Let's see this like a company. We are selling payload space. "1 ton costs you 2.000", thats the offer on the market. If you add stuff like "but your payload needs to have at least xyz torque and its own decoupler" that limits the payload. Basically, the customer would deny to pay for stuff that is the lifters job to have.

Imho the lifter should be able to carry dead-weight into space, thats what i build my stuff like. But then i cant make it into the ranks here. If i would abuse the rules like crazy by stacking 4 lander cans together etc i could fly the sharpest turns with no gimbal needed... but the lifter itself couldnt do that on its own.

Because decouplers are way overpriced atm it does make a difference (a rather huge one)

[GusTurbo]

The whole cockpit is non standard ?!

That's the regular 2.5m command pod. Not sure what's non-standard about it.

[gm537]

The whole cockpit is non standard ?!

I'm having trouble with the ruleset here. Decoupler can be part of the payload so you dont have to pay for it... payload can have torque...

Let's see this like a company. We are selling payload space. "1 ton costs you 2.000", thats the offer on the market. If you add stuff like "but your payload needs to have at least xyz torque and its own decoupler" that limits the payload. Basically, the customer would deny to pay for stuff that is the lifters job to have.

The cockpit is not non-standard there is just an interior change. It's the exact same cockpit as stock with a paint job. Though I agree that there are so many mods going in that game it makes the end result just a touch questionable. (The rocket itself is pretty simple though you could always replicate as a sanity check)

As for torque first of all most 'payloads' in normal game play will include capsules which have torque, second in my own game play have at times put additional torque on the payload, and third of all it's the rules of the challenge. Every challenge is going to have some rule that probably could be abused, or so many restrictions it won't be fun. I think this challenge has done a good job of balance. (The decoupler is indeed questionable but it becomes difficult to change rules once submissions start rolling in)

[zekes]

Heavyweight, stock, no FAR or autopilot. Puts 170 tonnes to LKO.\

Cira IV

Cost: $729,873.60

Download: https://www./?79xc541f9j040f6

- - - Updated - - -

also, Medium lofter (13-17 tonnes)

Z12 Medium Lifter

This launcher is 100% reusable, and comes in two stages. The first stage is 7 SRBs, and decouples right after the gravity turn starts. The second stage takes the ship to a 200km apsis (about 5 minutes lead time) so that you can switch to the falling 1st stage. The parachutes should open automatically. Hit "Recover Vessel" as soon as it touches down, otherwize it might tip over. Then, switch back to the 2nd stage, circularize the burn (or as much as you can with a little fuel leftover). Then, decouple and deorbit the 2nd stage with the remaining fuel, and follow it down to see the parachutes open and recover just like the 1st stage. Max tonnage to orbit is 13-17 tonnes.

Download: https://www./?ou5gc708yyui15l

Cost: $36,304.00

Refund Value (for safe recovery): $16,000 Approx

[gm537]

Also I am hearing about 24.2 which I suspect is updating costs so which version are we using?

[Camaron]

Keep submitting guys! I'll be busy today and tomorrow, so I won't be taking the time to update new entries into the rankings just yet, I'll get that done on Tuesday.

Zekes, and anyone else submitting, I need some more photographic evidence of your specs. Show me a pic of the recovery, for example, and a pic of the cost in VAB, some pics showing a succesful orbital launch.

Thanks for playing!

Come Tuesday, I'll probably even put one or two of my own pieces on the charts.

As for the constantly-changing-parts-costs deal, I'm going to generally want the latest version, but I won't be backtracking to re-figure older submissions.

[NikkyD]

Sorry, it looked like this one mod cockpit that has everything in it, monoprop with rcs, a chute etc

[zekes]

Keep submitting guys! I'll be busy today and tomorrow, so I won't be taking the time to update new entries into the rankings just yet, I'll get that done on Tuesday.

Zekes, and anyone else submitting, I need some more photographic evidence of your specs. Show me a pic of the recovery, for example, and a pic of the cost in VAB, some pics showing a succesful orbital launch.

Thanks for playing!

Come Tuesday, I'll probably even put one or two of my own pieces on the charts.

As for the constantly-changing-parts-costs deal, I'm going to generally want the latest version, but I won't be backtracking to re-figure older submissions.

Ok, here - Cira IV! 297 tonnes to LKO, Cost: $729,873.60 (for Launcher Only)

Cira IV launcher without payload - this is the base cost. Doing a little math, that means we have Kr/tonne rate: $2,457.49, which is actually cheap.

Also, your categories are too small. We need an Ultra Heavy cateogry as well, since this thing puts 2.5 times as much to orbit as the "Heavy Lifter" size.

Gallery:

Cira IV, on launch H300, to test the full power of the Cira.

Launch

First stage ascent

Second Stage

Orbit

Weight proof - the second stage was just about 100 m/s short of an 80km orbit, and by the time the 314 ton third stage/payload stage made the circulation burn, it was 297 tonnes.

Edited July 27, 2014 by zekes

[gm537]

Hey I want to mix things up a bit (and blow minds) by posting the most cost effective lifter so far that doesn't even touch Solids.

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My math says 4.878 tons at a lifter cost of 5281 for a final Kr/ton of 1,083.

[Camaron]

I was wondering when someone might put a Jet Engine to use!

Also, your categories are too small. We need an Ultra Heavy cateogry as well, since this thing puts 2.5 times as much to orbit as the "Heavy Lifter" size.

You misread. The Heavy Lifter category is everything Over 120. 120+.

[zekes]

You misread. The Heavy Lifter category is everything Over 120. 120+.

i know that, what i'm saying is its funny that mine is almost three times the size of the largest category.

[Pecan]

It's not funny, but it is silly.

[Camaron]

Well, my record payload so far is 2,955 tons, but I didn't want to make some sort of behemoth category that nobody would enter because of costs...but maybe I should reconsider?

[gm537]

Well, my record payload so far is 2,955 tons, but I didn't want to make some sort of behemoth category that nobody would enter because of costs...but maybe I should reconsider?

To me it wouldn't seem relevant to the challenge. This challenge is about cost efficiency of lifters not total size, and as people have mentioned even a 40 ton craft is easily capable of going anywhere in the solar system. There are other challenges for "lift the largest payload".