Airplane doesnt fly well

[Hodo]

http://oi58.tinypic.com/2d9ve5z.jpg

Ok off hand I see a few minor problems.

Your landing gear are still to far to the back of the aircraft to get off the ground well.

The Canards on the aircraft really aren't needed and are backwards.

EDIT- I noticed it has no fuel.

The 40 units at nacelle holds is tiny.

In a few minutes I will copy the design and try and rebuild it and post a picture of how it should look and if I can a craft file for you to download and use.

This is what I have managed to come up with, that is a direct copy of your design.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Hodo

[LethalDose]

I am trying to build plane that turns as quickly as possible, but cant figure out how. All planes turn more or less slow.

Large, heavy aircraft are generally less responsive, it's that easy.

B U I L D S M A L L E R A N D S I M P L E R

Read http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/52080-Basic-Aircraft-Design-Explained-Simply-With-Pictures

Basically, everything Pecan said, with two addenda:

First: Add SAS modules to your aircraft. It will increase your yaw/turn rate.

Second: Go watch some video of how real aircraft turn. Hopefully, you'll notice that they roll towards the turn. This is called "banking". It lets the aircraft's lift move it sideways, and it allows you leverage your pitch control to help you turn. So instead of pushing the A/D keys to turn to port/left or starboard/right, you should roll ~ 30-45 degrees in the direction you want to turn and then pull up.

[Jetsim]

The part behind fuel tank is the engine.

[Alshain]

The part behind the fuel tank is pretty useless, I would replace it with another part or both parts with a longer fuel tank, preferably one that doesn't have oxidizer in it.

That's his air intake. It changed in 0.24, it's and intake now and even has a little fuel.

Jetsim, that plane is gonna take off like a bat out H-E-Double Hockey Sticks (blasted swear filter). It will be hard to control and that much thrust will actually work against your ability to maneuver, if your using FAR it will likely not survive. Try a basic jet engine for a craft that size.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Alshain

[RoboRay]

Adding SAS modules is the last thing I would suggest to someone trying to learn to build planes. What that does is create a band-aid work-around so that they can ignore the problems of their design, rather than learning to build a design that actually works.

Basically, he just needs to read a few of the many good references provided earlier and gain an understanding of the basic principles.

Edited July 24, 2014 by RoboRay

[Jetsim]

I removed canard and plane couldnt pitch as well.

[LethalDose]

http://oi58.tinypic.com/2d9ve5z.jpg

Oh, you're using SAS. I'm actually surprised that isn't turning the crap out of your plane since it's so light. You may want to try replacing the delta-deluxe winglet you're using for the rudder with the smaller winglet.

The part behind the fuel tank is pretty useless, I would replace it with another part or both parts with a longer fuel tank, preferably one that doesn't have oxidizer in it.

I think what you're describing as "the part behind the fuel tank" is actually still the radial engine body, and I disagree that it's useless; In 0.24, that part and the nacelle were revamped to be air intakes and hold LiquidFuel, so, IMO, it's kinda perfect for a small aircraft like this.

Everything else you said is spot on.

EDIT: Ninja'd

EDIT: Response to:

Adding SAS modules is the last thing I would suggest to someone trying to learn to build planes. What that does is create a band-aid work-around so that they can ignore the problems of their design, rather than learning to build a design that actually works.

Basically, he just needs to read a few of the many good references provided earlier and gain an understanding of the basic principles.

Yeah, it's a band-aid, but... well, this whole thread.

Edited July 24, 2014 by LethalDose

[xcorps]

Adding SAS modules is the last thing I would suggest to someone trying to learn to build planes. What that does is create a band-aid work-around so that they can ignore the problems of their design, rather than learning to build a design that actually works.

A design that uses SAS to overcome deficiencies IS a design that works...

[RoboRay]

Not if the goal is to learn to build planes that don't need that crutch.

But if you want to add extra mass, power consumption and most importantly, cost to the the design, feel free.

Heck, with enough SAS you don't need any control surfaces or stabilizers at all.

[Alshain]

I'm with RoboRay on this one. The command module SAS is enough to prevent over steering until you get used to flying, you shouldn't need more than that.

[Jetsim]

Changed tail wing for smaller and canard for AV-R8 and plane flies really well even without stabilizer, but breaks very easily on turning.

[Alshain]

Changed tail wing for smaller and canard for AV-R8 and plane flies really well even without stabilizer, but breaks very easily on turning.

It's getting up to speed to fast. Either 1. Throttle way down 2. Use a Basic Jet Engine instead of a TurboJet. That craft doesn't need an engine that size. You probably went supersonic just after takeoff.

[LethalDose]

I'm simply going to state that I'm of the opinion that the addition of torque wheels is one reasonable method to improve yaw rate.

I don't think it's always the best solution.

I don't think it's the only solution.

I hope that's clear enough for everyone now and we can move on.

HOWEVER

It's moot anyway, because Jetsim already has an ASAS on his plane, and if he's not happy with the turning rate, then more torque isn't likely going to help.

[Hodo]

Ok here is two versions I have come up with based on your original design.

The first one went with a traditional airplane setup with a less powerful engine but it flies well and turns well.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v5re9fp7cdebska/JS-1H.craft

The JS-1H action controls are simple, 9 increase flap pitch, 0 decrease flap pitch.

The second one is a delta wing setup that uses Elerons for roll and pitch. Still handles quite good, and is fast as frak.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9ypzrjw6fno2vyt/JS-1H2.craft

And there are the craft files.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Hodo

[Jetsim]

I tried similar build as picture 2 removing canards from plane, but plane couldnt pitch or turn.

Another question, why picture 1 has two controllers in wing?

[Hodo]

I tried similar build as picture 2 removing canards from plane, but plane couldnt pitch or turn.

Another question, why picture 1 has two controllers in wing?

I am using FAR/NEAR, and they are (from inside to out), the Flaps and then the Ailerons.

The flaps let you generate lift at lower speeds by changing the angle at which air travels over the wings.

If you are going full throttle and trying to turn in those craft, they are going to turn like bricks, because your engine is to powerful for the mass of the craft.

[Alshain]

I tried similar build as picture 2 removing canards from plane, but plane couldnt pitch or turn.

Another question, why picture 1 has two controllers in wing?

Because the wing is on the center of mass. In that case the main wing control surfaces are only controlling roll and the tail control surfaces are pitch. (At least I think that's what it should be.)

EDIT: ninja'd

[Jetsim]

Because the wing is on the center of mass. In that case the main wing control surfaces are only controlling roll and the tail control surfaces are pitch. (At least I think that's what it should be.)

EDIT: ninja'd

CoL is actually at the position of engine in my plane so its pretty far behind, still cant lift.

[Hodo]

Here is a better picture of the second craft.

- - - Updated - - -

CoL is actually at the position of engine in my plane so its pretty far behind, still cant lift.

CoL is the blue ball with the line, that is the string it is hung from.

The purple ball with the line is the Center of Thrust (CoT).

[Alshain]

Hodo's first one looks a lot like one I did a while back, if you do try that one you may have trouble with wheel alignment, in that case using high anhedral wings can help (though it's not required).

[Hodo]

And it can't lift?

Wheels are off the ground.

Flaps being raised.

And cruising.

[Jetsim]

I though pitch is most powerful when CoL is as far from CoM as possible, and previous model had CoL about same position as CoT and plane couldnt pitch or roll at all. Then I moved CoL close to CoM and pitch and roll was good.

Plane still didnt seem to turn as fast as with canards which turned place in 3-4 seconds, elevon model turned 180 in 7 seconds.

[luizopiloto]

Only air bend masters knows the secrets involved in plane crafting...

[Alshain]

Not to derail, but Hodo where are you taking off from?

[Hodo]

I though pitch is most powerful when CoL is as far from CoM as possible, and previous model had CoL about same position as CoT and plane couldnt pitch or roll at all. Then I moved CoL close to CoM and pitch and roll was good.

Plane still didnt seem to turn as fast as with canards which turned place in 3-4 seconds, elevon model turned 180 in 7 seconds.

Both models I made are setup to be good turners not dogfighters. I can show you an aircraft that will turn on a dime and most likely flip out if pushed to hard.

Notice how the CoL is almost directly on top of the CoM.

- - - Updated - - -

Not to derail, but Hodo where are you taking off from?

KSC... I have a mod that adds a bit of life to the place.