Do american private companys represent America to you?

[ScallopPotato]

I had thought about this question before, but in another contexst.

Say if someone like SpaceX lands humans on Mars or the Moon, is that "America returning to the Moon/landing on Mars"? What are the qualifications? Do they just need American astronauts on board, does SpaceX's chartering in America make it count as American? Do they have to be public NASA astronauts, or do commerical/university/private astronauts count as well? At lot of this has to do with taking credit for the achievement, but it also factors into the politics in funding a mission and the jobs politicians will bring back to their state/district.

To me, "America did it" counts if there are American citizens as Astronauts, and Americans were a key player in making the mission happen.

[impyre]

cpast, you're wasting your breath.

Vilheim: I agree that nationalism can be dangerous. However, it can also inspire people to help their community. Esprit de corps is not always a bad thing. Having pride in your community can lead to volunteerism, having pride in your country can lead you to want to change it for the better, and taking pride in the world can drive you to take care of it. The real problem isn't being proud of something, it's when people put that pride above everything else, including safety, kindness, and peace.

Edited July 30, 2014 by impyre

[Kryten]

IIRC both the falcon 1 and falcon 9 were developed 100% on private budget.

You remember incorrectly. Falcon 9 was mostly funded by various NASA contracts, particularly COTS.

[Sky_walker]

It's irrelevant for ships because ships aren't generally physically located where they're registered, nor were they built there, nor are operational decisions about where they're sent made there. A ship changing the nation in which it is registered -- a ship flagged in, say, the US can be reflagged in Panama by paying a fee, with no change to anything connected to the ship itself. That might apply when talking about an individual rocket (i.e. "This particular Proton rocket, number ##-###), but I'm talking about the ability to *make* rockets (and things like types of rockets), where the location it's constructed is significant and is not easy to change (factories and labor forces being less mobile than ships).

Well, rockets are a very special case in general - they're build for a specific launch.

Probably the closest thing to resembling ships reflagging would be Arianespace launching Soyuz from the French Guyana - as far as rocket itself is build in Russia and Ukraine - it's "flagged" in France (as Arianespace is French company) and launched from France (French Guiana is a part of France).

So - yes, rockets can "change nation" much like ships do.

Whatever it might or might not happen with, say: Falcon 9 is a debate back on a level of what Red Iron Crown mentioned about nationalization - and it's a pure speculation, though in a current state of things it's unlikely to happen (I believe there is a congress permission required for that?).

What I meant was: The fact that the Atlas V uses Russian engines means some American rockets use Russian engines; it doesn't just mean that ULA uses some Russian engines. As a consequence of that, the Atlas V does not represent an independent American launch capability -- not because it doesn't count as an American rocket (which is what I interpret you as saying, that privately built rockets don't count as American rockets), but because it relies on technology from outside the US. Fundamentally, the Atlas V is an American rocket, because it was designed, and is mostly built, in the US; however, because it relies on Russian components for its construction (and the engines aren't a minor thing; if it had relied on Canadian wiring, that wouldn't be a big deal to change, while engines are a big deal), it isn't an *independent* launch capability. It makes sense to call it a US rocket, but not to point to it as evidence that the US has the independent ability to build entire rockets without relying on components built elsewhere. I'm not sure if that's any clearer; I have a pretty firm idea in my head about what I mean, but may not be getting it across right.

Ok, you got a solid argumentation here, and I agree with your point of view on the independent launch capability, though in 21 century we've got world so interconnected that if US would want to become truly independent from China - as in: stop importing anything from them then none of the companies would have any launch capacity as sooner or later US would simply run out of resources and hardware that they're importing from China - but well, that can be said about pretty much any country these days, so let's skip it for now as we're drifting offtopic here.

It basically boils down to one problem - if individual can represent his own country (and by that: corporations they own).

If you agree that random civilian / civilian corporation can - then the answer to question if "Do american private companys represent America?" is an obvious yes.

If you don't - then the answer is not.

[Vilheim]

Vilheim: I agree that nationalism can be dangerous. However, it can also inspire people to help their community. Esprit de corps is not always a bad thing. Having pride in your community can lead to volunteerism, having pride in your country can lead you to want to change it for the better, and taking pride in the world can drive you to take care of it. The real problem isn't being proud of something, it's when people put that pride above everything else, including safety, kindness, and peace.

Touché. You speak truth here.

At the same time, though, it would be nice to see us take more pride in humanity as a whole rather than our individual nations. We are a world becoming more and more globalized every day, after all.

[moeggz]

As a, uh, 'Murican, I have to say yes American space companies are representative of America's space capabilities and exploration. If NASA does use SpaceX manned launchers then I think America becomes capable of manned space launches again, even though it is a private company doing the launches they are contracted to the American government and that makes it an "American" achievement. Basically what Red Iron Crown said. Now, are they indicative of the entire nation's viewpoint and goals? No. Is one guy on the internet's prejudice an accurate representation of a nation of over 300 million people? Uh.. sadly not as inaccurate as I would like to say it is. Hetalia's America is so accurate he makes me fall out of my chair laughing.

I think the problem is that most of us can only afford to visit the Great White North, Mexico, and some Caribbean island nations. Basically, as citizens we think socializing with people of a different part of North America is enough exposure to varying types of thought. Really I think more of us just need to travel to other countries to get a more grounded world view. Yes 'Muricans tend to think the Moon landing means that they "won" space. And yes, their nationalism tends to think in terms of 'national' achievements instead of just achievements.

Personally, I view the moon landing as a human achievement and long for the day when there isn't a "space race" but merely a cooperative effort by people of various backgrounds to explore space for science and the eventual expansion of the human civilization beyond earth. Might have strayed off topic a bit. Back to posing as a regular American.... SO YA DUDE AMERICA IS SO MUCH GREATER AT SPACE!! WHAT IS THIS ESA? IS THAT A COPYCAT OF NASA?? NASA COULD TAKE BOTH ESA AND ROSCOSMOS IN A FIGHT! CAPITALISM FREEDOM AND GMO FOODS MAKES US BETTER!

Just kidding... hope you all know that lol

[vger]

Meh. The more we can get away from 'X represents Y country', the happier I will be. To me, the less nationalism, the better.

Think about it. What actual good does nationalism do for humanity as a whole?

Not much, really. But compared to Capitalism, it incites a stronger sense of unity with fellow humans...

[Skyler4856]

If they have a country's flag on them, they represent that country.

It's official the Soyuz is now America's