[Stock] Gyroplane altitude challenge

[hoioh]

Took a little time to get it under control, but after some attempts I think to have figured out how to get it to the highest possible point in space. I'm running FAR by the way, will try it without FAR tomorrow.

The trick, with FAR anyway, is to angle the first couple of wings up just to the middle of the total wing length and then to angle the rest of them down so their lowest point matches the origin. Effectively creating spider legs on it. The stability comes from the control surface attached to the outer wing part.

It performed beautifully up to about 16K after which the air simply became too thin to produce any lift, it stalled at 16290 in the end:

Didn't manage to land it though on behalf of accidentally pushing the spacebar again and detaching the little lander I hung under it... Better luck next time.

Didn't manage to land it though on behalf of pushing the spacebar once too many... Better luck next time.

[hoioh]

doesn't work quite as well without FAR, after some alterations I got it up to just over 10K:

[Zipmafia]

Here is my entry. I did end up using a single freely rotating washer from infernal robotics. Hope this doesn't disqualify me, I just could seem to make anything else that would work. It helped keep my craft straight, I had to steer the whole way but it was easy.

[goduranus]

Infernal rotors makes it a lot easier to steer. While this gives you an advantage, the mod is not overpowered, and it does fit with the spirit of rotation based craft. What does everyone else think? should non-overpowered mods go the in stock category, or should it go in the mod category with FAR crafts?

[Zipmafia]

Well I didn't read the challenge well enough, I didn't realize that there was an entry for modded crafts. My vote is that my modded craft get scored as such, even though the parts aren't overpowered, they give a huge advantage in this challenge. Those stock players are working overtime to get that high, don't let me sour their hard work.

Plus, I got higher....

[DragonEG]

Well I didn't read the challenge well enough, I didn't realize that there was an entry for modded crafts. My vote is that my modded craft get scored as such, even though the parts aren't overpowered, they give a huge advantage in this challenge. Those stock players are working overtime to get that high, don't let me sour their hard work.

Plus, I got higher...

And what about payload?

[goduranus]

Previous entries were scored without payload. Current rules says that the craft must be capable of lifting the payload, but did not state that the payload needs to be carried on the scoring attempt.

[DragonEG]

Previous entries were scored without payload. Current rules says that the craft must be capable of lifting the payload, but did not state that the payload needs to be carried on the scoring attempt.

Ah, OK... I was slightly confused about it, so I did my attempt with payload attached.

Here it is: R4K Mk28x "Super Kaptor" (actually, it is 32-nd generation of that craft)

This vessel currently lifts 9t payload at 12140 meters (and I wonder, how far can it climb without one...).

Payload consists of Rockomax X200-8 Fuel Tank (4.5t) + Mk1-2 Command Pod (4t) + Protective Rocket Nose Mk7 with some landing gears, lights and parachutes attached(~0.5t).

I've used Kerbal Engineer Redux, Vessel Viewer and Alternate Resource Panel for digital and visual information readout, no other mods, just vanilla parts... lots of them.

Here it is in VAB. There are two probe cores directly above RTGs for those who like to use Yaw control channel instead of Roll.

And we are clear for takeoff!

Just trim roll into full clockwise (Alt+Q) and let it do its job - vehicle do not require any control input and becomes more stable as it spin up.

Unfortunately, there is a problem: due to high complexity of the ship it slows down physics time to around 0.3x. It is just a really long wait while it climbs up. I went for a cup of tea, so no mid-flight screenshots, sorry

I checked it again after a while. And found it hovering there:

It's not perfect, I'll try to improve this result, but that's my entry for stock ladder.

[Zipmafia]

I would like to suggest that you add more sections for scoring, like fastest, most Gs, lightest, cheapest. I was able to make a stock one that didn't fly very high, but was able to go over 50 m/s with about 3 Gs.

[goduranus]

But then people might get confused about which entry to submit, I propose the non-altitude achievements go in the honorary mention section

[Zipmafia]

What have you done to me goduranus?! I have had a bunch of free time this weekend and I keep coming back to this challenge. Oh well, here is my entry for fastest and most Gs. It starts to slow down after 8,770 km, the dial said 72.5 m/s, the flight stats said 75 m/s. I got it up to about 10,000 km, made a small correction, and it exploded.

[goduranus]

haha, glad to see you're enjoying the challenge, well done.

[Master Tao]

Here's my FAR entry. Something went wrong with the screenshots (probably me pressing 1 instead of F1), but I did catch screenshots of takeoff, landing, and the flight log showing the highest altitude acheived: 22,223m.

The thing was still rising at 8-9 m/s at that altitude, but even with MechJeb and some unorthodox piloting, I couldn't get it any higher. Once it starts falling, it's not going to stop until it hits the ground.

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[Pds314]

Got one in FAR that can go up at 60 m/s. Problem is that it stops going straight up at some point.

[Master Tao]

Got one in FAR that can go up at 60 m/s. Problem is that it stops going straight up at some point.

That was my problem. I had one that could do 50 m/s with a 1 ton payload, but to do that, it has to spin so fast that physics breaks down.

The key for me was to create a ton of drag (and lift) so that it would spin very slowly.

[DragonEG]

About explosions: unfortunately, many pieces of equipment (including large SAS) have very weak physics joints and tend to break by centrifugal forces at peak rotation speeds. Try to use more sturdy parts as main structure and put SAS on them. Reducing vehicle radius also helps, but you will lose some lift due to lessen linear speed of wings.

About stability: I found at least two points of relative stable flight.

If you're near surface - huge, slow rotating blades tend to stabilize craft. But it will start to turn sideways around 5km, then with FAR you may gain stall by sideslip.

If you somehow was able to stay on course during takeoff and first 4-7km with fast-rotating craft, it can stabilize itself with higher rotation speed (gyroscopic effect) when atmosphere becomes thinner. Looks like max speed can not exceed 300RPM, not sure about it.

I have a couple of questions:

Do using of Infernal Robotics parts as motors for driving propellers count as overpower and against the rules?

And do using precision placement plugins, such as Part Angle Display count as "modded" (it have no parts, but it make significant difference because you can rotate things with much greater precision than in stock game)?

Edited August 17, 2014 by DragonEG

[goduranus]

Previously we decided that Infernal Robotics counts as a "balanced" mod and will be scored alongside FAR. Not sure on Part Angle Display though, haven't used it myself, what does everyone think?

[Master Tao]

I'm completely fine with both IR and PAD. I think the stability problems IR introduces balances out the ability to control rotation speed and the fact that it doesn't require EC (yet). PAD is neat, but it's just a little fine tuning.

[goduranus]

But should they score in the stock or modded category?

[Master Tao]

For me, IR is definitely modded. PAD probably won't make a huge difference with stock aerodynamics, so I'm fine with allowing that in the stock category. Of course, I'm not planning on entering the stock category, so maybe someone else should weigh in.

[DragonEG]

I've tried my previous design with FAR. It need some additional tweaking to be more stable.

Highest point was 18786m, when it suddenly got flat spin. I've tried to recover it, but it crashes at runway's side. I'm not sure it can be count as modded entry, because it definitely could not float at maximum height.

But here is the story:

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Edited August 17, 2014 by DragonEG
wrong tags

[MabDeno]

I have spent far too long on this challenge.....

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Without the capsule and science module (1T payload) I have achieved a higher altitude and stable altitude, but I guess that means this design just needs more.......

Edited August 19, 2014 by MabDeno
Bad Link

[DragonEG]

I achieved this result with IR Rotatron, FAR aerodynamics and 1t payload (FL-T200), and now I think that using IR as motor for this challenge is overpower... What do you think?

[DragonEG]

Without the capsule and science module (1T payload) I have achieved a higher altitude and stable altitude, but I guess that means this design just needs more.......

Wow... I didn't thought what small control surfaces can make that difference and prevent stall at such AoA. I need to review my design for stock leaderboard!

[Master Tao]

I achieved this result with IR Rotatron, FAR aerodynamics and 1t payload (FL-T200), and now I think that using IR as motor for this challenge is overpower... What do you think?

Nice! Counterrotating propellers. Why didn't I think of that? I even have a counterrotating model helicopter.