Which is Harder?

[GiantTank]

Howdy Folks!

I want to know what people think about the two hardest missions in KSP (excluding grand tour).

What is harder: Eve return mission (1 launch) or a Jool V return (one launch). Both are very hard.

Right now, I think Jool V is harder. Simply because of Tylo and docking.

What do you think?

[Random Tank]

Jool 5's aren't that hard, because all craft needed to carry it out can be tested in Kerbin (even Tylo to a point, just land on Kerbin with no chutes, as slowing down to 100m/s on Tylo is easy, it's just the landing bits that's a challenge), Vall, Pol and Bop landers are easy and Lathye can use jets which makes it easier. I don't find docking hard, so that isn't an issue for me. The hardest thing with a Jool 5 is making sure you bring enough fuel, otherwise it's just 5 landers.

So I'd say Eve was harder, but not by much. It's just a challenge guessing whether your TWR and dV is high enough, though any of the info panel mods (like KER or VOID) makes it a lot easier...

[MiniMatt]

From an engineering perspective I'd say Eve return is harder. From a piloting perspective, well, landing on Tylo would be harder, I'd suspect taking off to be easier.

What makes a challenge harder from a piloting perspective is individual and hence harder to judge - you mentioned docking, and whilst you'll be doing more docking on a Jool 5 trip you'll still more than likely perform at least one docking on an Eve return. Docking ten times really isn't harder than docking once - once you've got docking down the worse more docking can ever really become is "a bit dull".

My first ever Jool-5 (indeed, barring an ill fated mission taken out by a kraken stampede, my first ever visit to the Joolian system) is linked in my sig. Tylo landing was.... well it took 15 quickloads. BUT - that had the worst possible circumstances: coming in very fast and very low from a highly elliptical orbit, on the night side, with no landing lights, with a poorly balanced lander and razor thin fuel margins.

[Jouni]

Jool-5 is harder, because it's a long and complex mission with many different requirements. Eve landing used to be harder, but 0.23.5 simplified it a lot. Stronger joints and bigger rockets mean that it's no longer that difficult to launch the big lander to Eve, and getting it down in one piece is also much easier now.

[DeepSpaceDutch]

For me Eve Return, I've just finished the Jool-5 (see report in my signature) but Eve already took the lives of many Kerbals....

[FleetAdmiralJ]

Jool V was relatively easy once I figured out all the pieces I needed to put together to do it. My problem with Eve landing is I literally have't figured out how to build a viable ship to do it yet

[SkyRender]

A comprehensive Kerballed Jool system mission is technically more complicated, but hardly more difficult, than an Eve return. Then again, Eve returns aren't really that challenging overall either since it just comes down to good engineering. Maybe I've just been playing KSP too long...

[QuesoExplosivo]

Neither is the hardest mission. The hardest mission is taking off from ~0 meters elevation on Jool.

[Red Iron Crown]

I've managed to do an Eve return but haven't successfully completed a Jool-5 in several attempts, so my vote goes to Jool-5.

Eve return is basically a challenge to design an ascent vehicle with enough dV and TWR for Eve. It's challenging, but it's one challenge when you come down to it. Landing is easy with chutes, the two transfers are relatively easy as Eve's pretty close to Kerbin in dV terms, and the whole thing can be done without docking/rendezvous at all. Each attempt takes much less time, too.

Jool-5 is a whole other thing. You need to design: A Tylo lander, a Laythe lander, another lander for the others, a mothership with a bunch of dV, possibly a tug as well. The transfer is costlier and more challenging to do efficiently. Landing on Tylo is one of the toughest piloting challenges in the game, IMO. Laythe landing is tough due to there being so little dry land. Several transfers are required in the Jool system, some with tricky inclination changes. Several docking/rendezvous maneuvers are necessary, too.

I'm sure some have found Eve return harder, but Jool-5 is definitely harder for me.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Red Iron Crown

[NecroBones]

I selected Jool-5 in the poll, because it's a complex engineering problem, in that it needs to account for multiple landing locations, lots of transfers, and budget the fuel accordingly. It requires a lot of planning, with many different requirements, some of which are seemingly conflicting (Tylo vs Laythe).

Eve landing/return is challenging, yes, but it's mainly a game of getting the right amount of TWR & dV into the lander, and having a good ascent profile. It's challenging, but less complicated. Technically you can brute-force this one via trial and error, and that's just not something you can do with the Jool-5.

EDIT: As an aside, I took on Eve long before I did the Jool-5, and I was glad I did it in that order.

[Madrias]

Despite being a spaceplane pilot, I'd say Eve Return. Sure, landing on everything at Jool is... difficult. However, everything other than aerobraking at Jool can be simulated on Kerbin. Eve, however, is a gravity well that contains an atmosphere with the consistency of paste. At the same time, Eve is a pain to land on. Either it's mountains or it's oceans. Very few flat spots that I've found. At the same time, the atmosphere doesn't support the use of jet engines.

Still, I did enjoy sending a winged probe there and back again. I hate sending Kerbals there, though. I'd rather do a Kerballed Jool V run.