Staging problem with multiple craft.

[Mister Kerman]

Hey guys. I made a lander and a Command/Service modul to go with it. It's a replica of the Apollo program missions. I get to the point where I'm ready to let my CM/SM perform a transposition manouver to recover my lander from below itself but I think there's a problem with it's staging.

Here's what the staging is set up like.

4.

-Poodle engine on bottom of lander

-Decouple launch tower

-Launch tower

3.

-CM/SM engine

-Decouple lander

2.

-Ascent stage engine

-Decouple Ascent stage from bottom portion of lander

1.

-Decouple CM from SM

0.

-Activate CM parachutes

When I'm in space and activate stage 3, the lander becomes space junk. I can put a kerbal into it, but there's no response from controls whatsoever. I can't even activate my RCS thrusters. Any tips? If not my Apollo mission is kaput!

It has full electricity, fuel, etc... and can "undock" itself from the Rockomax decoupler, but RCS and the Poodle engine on the bottom of the lander won't activate or thrust if it is already.

Can anyone spot anything I'm missing?

Edited August 2, 2014 by Mister Kerman

[AlexinTokyo]

Can you post the .craft file? I'll see if I can have a look at it.

[Mister Kerman]

Oh I'm at work and I'm not sure how to. I can do it later if you're still interested in helping!

What folder would it be in? Never looked at a craft file before.

[AlexinTokyo]

It will be in: {KSP folder}\saves\{Your Save}\Ships\VAB

{KSP folder} is where you installed the game - on Steam on Windows, by default it's C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Kerbal Space Program. I'm not sure where it is located on Linux or MacOS systems, or in non-Steam installs.

It's a text file with a .craft extension, named the same as the ship in question. You can share it using DropBox, MediaFire, Google Drive, or the file sharing service of your choice.

ETA: Also, please let me know if you're using any mods - if they add parts I'll have to download them, and even if not I'll have to take into account any alterations to gameplay/mechanics.

Edited August 2, 2014 by AlexinTokyo

[Mister Kerman]

Oh okay. I'll have one on here by tomorrow afternoon. I work nights right now so I'll try and deal with that tomorrow morning.

The whole thing is stumping me. I think it might have something to do with it decoupling the poodle engine and activating it in the same stage; But I can't turn it on manually either.

Also no mods!

[fairytalefox]

(deleted by the author)

Edited August 2, 2014 by fairytalefox

[Mister Kerman]

All right, here's the craft file.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_xfGg0HpfC3REpVT2VtV1ZnUmM/edit?usp=sharing

I used Google Drive. I've never used it before so hopefully this link works the way i think it does.

The more I think about it the more I want to make a more cost effective version that's not so heavy and plagued with technical issues. I still would like to do things Apollo style and leave a flag and a Descent module where it landed. I think it's super bad ass leaving half a lander carcass. I'll still have the staging problem though so I'd like to get this figured out. I don't have a lot of free time to deal with this myself.

This whole thing has been an engineering nightmare and I kind of want to just get back to playing the game instead of struggling to emulate things that happened in real life. I think Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin would want me to just land on the f*@%!&$ Mun.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Mister Kerman

[AlexinTokyo]

OK, I had a look and I don't see any problems (with the staging anyway - the joint between the descent and ascent modules of your LEM has a serious case of the wobbles!)

My guess is that after you've separated the LEM, you decouple the Rockomax decoupler from the docking port, and you're ending up controlling the decoupler and engine fairing at that point, and not the LEM. Pushing '[' or ']' to switch ships until you get the LEM again should solve the problem in that case.

I was able to do this and then dock the CM/SM with the LEM.

You do need to watch your staging after docking, as the CM/SM decoupler is in the next stage.

[Mister Kerman]

OK, I had a look and I don't see any problems (with the staging anyway - the joint between the descent and ascent modules of your LEM has a serious case of the wobbles!)

My guess is that after you've separated the LEM, you decouple the Rockomax decoupler from the docking port, and you're ending up controlling the decoupler and engine fairing at that point, and not the LEM. Pushing '[' or ']' to switch ships until you get the LEM again should solve the problem in that case.

I was able to do this and then dock the CM/SM with the LEM.

You do need to watch your staging after docking, as the CM/SM decoupler is in the next stage.

Wow really? I knew my staging was gonna be messed up because I had a two-part Lander staging setup combined with a second ship's (CM/SM). I was just going to manually stage with the right mouse button after Transpositioning.

PS: That thing is expensive eh?

Thanks so much. I'm going to build a massive expensive lifter and try it out right now.

[Pecan]

This whole thing has been an engineering nightmare and I kind of want to just get back to playing the game instead of struggling to emulate things that happened in real life. I think Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin would want me to just land on the f*@%!&$ Mun.

If you want to try an Apollo-like mission there is a ship you can use in Chapter 6 of my tutorial (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/79658-Exploring-The-System-A-design-tutorial-campaign?p=1197077&viewfull=1#post1197077). It is designed NOT to leave half a lander on the surface - but hey, you can always fly it back down after it's returned the crew to the CM.

[Mister Kerman]

If you want to try an Apollo-like mission there is a ship you can use in Chapter 6 of my tutorial (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/79658-Exploring-The-System-A-design-tutorial-campaign?p=1197077&viewfull=1#post1197077). It is designed NOT to leave half a lander on the surface - but hey, you can always fly it back down after it's returned the crew to the CM.

I want to leave a descent stage. I love the idea of leaving half the lander there by the flag, just like the Apollo missions. I've actually just finished being ruthlessly violated about 10 inches prison style by the VAB 5 times in a row and I think I'm done with this model. After 500 parts I think the game simply breaks. It consistently duplicates my asparagus stage branch and I can't stop it from doing it, so I'm done. I think it's just too many parts. There's a chance I might pick it up later but I don't think I'm going to try. I hate to think that Alex wasted his time helping me out, so I'm gonna continue to come back and rep his posts for helping me so much. I just can't go on with this. KSP obviously wasn't meant for models of this kind to make it onto the Mun and work as well as they did in real life.

Too heavy, too many parts, too many technical issues. You win KSP; You beat me. On to smaller and better things! It's a huge relief actually. What a nightmare this has been. I'll just be happy to have the craft file of the replica to show some of my friends since it looks so dang cool.

[sojourner]

Many people have done it Apollo style. The real question is how do you manage to make a craft of 500+ just to get to the mun? That seems excessive. You need to simplify your construction.

[Mister Kerman]

The Lunar Module combined with the CM/SM is over 250 parts. It's a little excessive but was necessary to make it look exactly the way I wanted. I was hoping to muscle it to the moon using a SHLV (Super heavy lifting launch vehicle) but it's too much of a strain on KSP so I'm gonna scrap the whole thing. I'm keeping the ship saved as my own personal tribute to the Apollo Program, but it's obvious I'm incapable of getting that thing onto the Mun. Time to move on to something a little more manageable and practical.

[Pecan]

...KSP obviously wasn't meant for models of this kind to make it onto the Mun and work as well as they did in real life.

(my underlining)

You have a problem with being able to do it better?

KSP's universe is different, the parts are different, the distances are different, only the physics is (more or less) the same.

Apollo-style is a complicated way to do a Mun landing in KSP and trying to force the available parts to look like something they were never meant to be just makes it even more complicated.

If you want an accurate simulation of ancient Earth technology try Orbiter, lots of people here use that as well, or have used it. You can't easily build your own ships but there are models of historical ones.

Alternatively, if you want to do this in KSP, there are numerous mods of alternative-universe human rockets, including several Apollo ones.

[Mister Kerman]

The thread has the [answered] prefix. Making the lander and CM/SM look just like the Apollo Program's and trying to make it work like it did in it's real world hayday was for my own enjoyment. I made this thread to get some help and I got it, and I've moved on. Also I don't mod.

I made these today!

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/29533-What-did-you-do-in-KSP-today?p=1328119&viewfull=1#post1328119

Edited August 3, 2014 by Mister Kerman

[Pecan]

The thread has the [answered] prefix...

Oooh, yeah, so it does. Doesn't have one of those padlocky thingys though, does it?

One of the part-welding mods might help you a lot. They work by taking similar parts such as fuel tanks and making them into a single, larger, part. When you're talking of small ships with, already, several hundred parts they can make quite a difference. They can't cope with parts of completely different types - say a lab and an engine - because they can't work out what type to make the result but within their limitations they're worth a look.