My thoughts on part clipping and a solution

[Johnny Wishbone]

Long time lurker, first time poster; love the game. Hopefully this thread won't turn into a flamewar on part clipping, but I wanted to share my thoughts on it and start a discussion about a proposed solution. Personally, I don't like part clipping. I won't go as far as calling it "cheating", but I don't care for it myself and generally don't use it in any of my designs. I say 'generally' because I do recognize that without clipping, it's just not possible to make some asthetically pleasing designs. In a few cases I have had to resort to clipping in order to make something look good while remaining functional, or to hide what should be internal components (batteries, RTGs, monopropellent tanks, etc) instead of having them hanging on the side of a spacecraft. It is this second thing that I have a proposal for and would care to hear other's opinions. The biggest problem with internally clipping a battery or monopropellant tank internally to a structural piece is the fact that it becomes unselectable once in flight, so resources cannot be transferred to or from it (as far as I know. I'd be glad to hear if someone has a trick to do that). For example, you can very easily clip a battery to the inside of an Advanced SAS part, which hides it nicely, but means that you cannot select the battery and transfer power to or from it once you are in flight. My proposed solution would be a new stock part, an equipment bay, or something similar that is the same size (diameter and height) as an Advanced SAS unit, that allows you to put other parts inside it, while still allowing them to be selectable (via right click). You would click on the equipment bay, and whatever parts you have inside it would show up in the popup menu with the necessary buttons to transfer resources. A real world analogy is the equipment section of the Gemini spacecraft. I also don't use mods, and I realize there may already be such parts provided by mods. I'm suggesting a stock part because I believe it would enhance the game playing experience. I also understand that there is a section in these forums for suggested game enhancements, but am posting this in the general discussion section in the hopes it gets more views and generates worthwhile discussion.

[KasperVld]

I also understand that there is a section in these forums for suggested game enhancements, but am posting this in the general discussion section in the hopes it gets more views and generates worthwhile discussion.

Moved to the proper section, please don't pollute the forums for views

[r4pt0r]

Moved to the proper section, please don't pollute the forums for views

I thought these normally get locked because theres people like me who say clipping multiple tanks inside tanks is cheating, and then there's other people saying "you cant cheat in a singleplayer sandbox game" and its just a never ending back and fourth. Glad you kept it open Kasper.

Yes, part clipping tanks in tanks, intakes inside other parts, and engines inside engines, stuff like that, is cheating. doing it for aesthetics is ok i guess. I never open the debug menu so I only clip what it lets me (half submerged cubic struts and stuff).

Edited August 6, 2014 by r4pt0r

[Kerbart]

One can argue that part clipping offsets the many limitations you have inside the VAB that you would not have in reality. Obviously fitting two tanks in the space of one wouldn't be one of those cases, but batteries, small RCS tanks, etc can normally by fitted in between other parts.

[FonVegen]

The only time I use part clipping for my designs is when symmetry won't let me fit two symmetric engines behind two equally symmetric fuel tanks (which happens from time to time).

Also, your equipment bay idea sounds rather impractical. Why have a part that allows things to be clipped into it, when you can just add a part that contains certain amounts of Xenon gas, MonoProp and energy? You could just throw out the resources for the flights you don't need them on. This would be easier, at least in my opinion.

[Kasuha]

I think there's no point discussing player opinions on part clipping - here, everyone has their own view and everyone is right about it. But there might be a point discussing what there might be in the game.

For instance, I think the game needs its parts better designed. Attach points of many parts are inside their collision mesh and that's why it is so hard to attach them in symmetry to other parts - the evaluation of part overlaps is done differently for the "main" part and for its copies. That has nothing to do with the part's model, collision mesh is a different thing and does not have to have exactly the same dimensions. In the past, the collision checking was relieved to allow attaching parts together easily. But it's the part geometry what should be really improved.

Also, assuming current symmetry modes (1-2-3-4-6-8) continue to be supported, all circular parts' collision mesh circumference should have 24 faces. Some parts, typically small fuel tanks, clearly have simpler surface and that again leads to many headaches when surface-mounting parts on them.

When part collision mesh issues are solved, the collision detection algorithm could be again made a bit more strict and less forgiving regarding part overlaps.