Naval Battle Club

[Three1415]

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Well, that just confirms my long-held suspicion that actually making anything is completely pointless, because it will just get vaporized anyway. There is really no use in this thread existing anymore...

Seriously; Dreks>>>>> These two

No--Dreks are simply overrated, because half the people who fought them had no idea how to produce effective munitions. They die just as easily as everything else.

[panzer1b]

Alas, I thought I had you with this one...But apparently the warhead on the Tripedo-S/H makes it equivalent to a girder missile nearly forty times its actual mass; an 87-ton girder missile did the same level of damage in testing...

I feared that would be the case; more struts are required...

The lack of optimization or multi-threading is sad, yes, but improvements to it are rarely pushed for because very little else in the game requires ships above a few hundred parts. Still, though, performance is terrible and has only been getting worse...

The Tripedo-S/H is so powerful because it uses a very heavy core. The mass of the impactor is ~1.5t, that is MORE then half the entire missile, and it is quite good impact tolerance. Anyways, i think this weapon is the ULTIMATE weapon ever made if you take into account how lightweight and low part count it is. Last i checked, if you count the decoupler, it is 7 parts total, and it weighs under 2.7t. Im not claiming it is the best weapon out there, because it is not, but sofar i have yet to see anything that even approaches its firepower at the mass/part count. The only thing that kills it in my opinion is its weird shape that is just very hard to work around for anything but radial attachment on the outer hull, and that just looks horrible imo. You try mounting something that is ~1.25m tall, by ~2.5m wide, by ~3m long on a ship. Yes its possible like in my SK-FRG-III, but it just is hard to make look good not to mention these weapons kinda require a 2.5m bay unless you make a dedicated square hole for them to fit nicely inside. Btw, the shape is because the impactor is essentially sideways, ibve found that many weapons do more damage when impacting sideways or at angle, so i used this concept and made the Tripedo-S/H have a sideways impactor.

That said, im gonna try a experimental ship using the Tripedo-S/H as armor, if it is so OP as a weapon, imaging how armored a ship would be if its made out of Tripedo-S/Hs!

You are right that few things actually need high part counts besides capital ships. Really the only non-military situations the part count wall hit me was base building (modular bases, especially good looking elaborate ones) really adds to part count, especially when you start having lots of buildimngs in teh same general area. The other case was space stations, which can get laggy due to all the modules, not to mention craft you have docked. Aside from this, most players seem to do single missions (myself ive launched syncronized squadrons before which lag ALOT using burntogether mod), and tend to stick to more simple barebones vessels, as most efficienbt craft are barebones, and most for looks craft are usually unfit to do anything without inf fuel or no grav cheat enabled, making them not very appealing to players that want to go do something outside of staring at said ship in orbit.

Finally, im actually thinking that the only way to have fun and enjoyeable space combat is to purposely limits weapons in some shape or form. I would start with a maximum mass per weapon rule, and id also throw in a maximum shots per turn as well, to make people who just bring excessive amounts of ammo into battle unable to use all of it on a single target guaranteeing its demise through sheer volume of fire. Im not pretending to be an expert in game balancing, but ill sure tell you, the whole whoiever goes 1st wins cause everyone 1 shots something else on every turn is annoying and cheap.

Once i get some free time (i have a job, not that much except weekends), id love to battle someone, bvut perhaps for fairness, we can limit outr weapons to either as proposed above, or just use some predesigned weapons that both sides can use (which are agreed to be fair for anyone to deploy).

Edited June 2, 2015 by panzer1b

[Dark Junior]

Can I just nuke everyone?

[Three1415]

That said, im gonna try a experimental ship using the Tripedo-S/H as armor, if it is so OP as a weapon, imaging how armored a ship would be if its made out of Tripedo-S/Hs!

I already tried using XL wheels as armor; it does not really work, because they have weird hitboxes that are not easily exploited for armor, and are easily phased through (these characteristics are what make it such a powerful missile), like structural pylons when they were still possessed 999 m/s impact tolerance.

Can I just nuke everyone?

We are way ahead of you, I think...No ships can withstand our missiles...

[Spartwo]

You lot just think it's about the strongest armour and weapons. That's why you think there's no point anymore.

[Three1415]

You lot just think it's about the strongest armour and weapons. That's why you think there's no point anymore.

Mainly because that is, in fact, the point of competition. Having a nice-looking ship is merely a bonus.

[Spartwo]

You're arguing this with someone who

1)created this

2)won battles without firing a shot

haven't seen someone leave soi since I last took part

Edited June 2, 2015 by Spartwo

[Dark Junior]

I H-Bomb andcrash minmus into everyone! I rain trillions of kerbals on your armada and I smash the fleet with a hammer! BWA HA HA! THE UNIVERSE IS DESTROYED IN A MASSIVE FIRESTORM! I WIN!

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I bet you never expected that!

Also I win?

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I also ordered the magratheans to recreate the universe. WITHOUT YOU!

[Rune]

You lot just think it's about the strongest armour and weapons. That's why you think there's no point anymore.

They need a lesson on dV for polar orbits, high-speed retrograde interceptions (I still don't get how zekes does them reliably inside a 2.5km sphere!), and deep gravity wells to fight in. And if only my suggestion to kill the core part rule had been accepted, then we could have resilient modular warships... It has! Modular ships that can survive breaking in two for the win! My frigates were famous for being able to piece together a working ship after horrendous damage.

BTW, my best weapon ever was a 0.625m RCS-powered guided torpedo: if shot right, it pierced Dreks (and yes, the key is warhead weight, but not in the way you think). This thing has always been about one-shooting ships... when you get a clear shot.

Rune. I still wish I had the time to play this. With the new nuke volume/heat restrictions, mobility just became much more important.

[Spartwo]

And planned escape paths to limit available attackers.

[panzer1b]

And planned escape paths to limit available attackers.

What would u guys say to a longer term battle that not only involved ships but also interplanetary maneuvers? Id like to start a battle that involves 0 limits to where you can go with your ships, with the only rule that Hedit is limited to ONLY warping your vessels into LKO (say no more then 100km orbit). Im also thinking of making it more a on-going game that doesnt necessarily end, but allows reinforcements later in teh game. Im no pro at orbital maneuuvers, and id be glad to learn from the more experienced players about how to do efficient combat not only from the perspective of weapons/armor, but like Spawtwo suggests, actually focus somewhat on the less obvious stuff like maneuvering. Now if only i could find a way to deal with ion engines and their garbage TWR, its so painful to have to drag 100+ engines for a 100t warship. Where are my 1.25m stock ions

[Spartwo]

Manoeuvring out of reach of heavy hitters has won me a few battles.

[panzer1b]

Manoeuvring out of reach of heavy hitters has won me a few battles.

Cool, hopefully my new ship the SK-CRV-IIIg5 will be able to do what the older ones couldnt, have both range and decent TWR using ions. ions arent actually too bad, provided you are willing to have part count issues. Ohh, and did i mention it uses 6 Tripedo-S/H missiles instead of the aging Tripedo-Ss. Ofc for any fun games id swap those to better weapons, i find it plain unfair to abuse OP weapons.

Finally, ive decided to declassify the Tripedo-S/H and its core is a RoveMax Model XL3 (components are LV-909, reaction wheel, probe core, fuel tank, RTG, wheel, and decoupler which is so light and just OP). As much as i like this weapon's firepower, i feel there is just no reason to use it (myself id never use it, and id refuse to fight anyone who uses it). The ultra massive rover wheel as a warhead or ramming device needs to be banned from any competitive games or armor will be forever worthless.

Btw, i dare you guys to try to find a way to counter that wheel when used as a warhead. There is just no way to defend against it as the wheel will not be destroyed in a collision, and itll tear thru anything except itself at ultra massive speeds.

Edited June 2, 2015 by panzer1b

[Dark Junior]

Did I win?

[daemonCaptrix]

Experimenting with replacing my usual LV-N thrusters with LV-909 thrusters. Seems to be working better. Still hard to bring them up to par without using k-drives.

[Dark Junior]

okay... I think I'll play fair...

Imake a nuclear powered heavily armored/stealthy ship to hide away on during any war. No one will find me unless I attack.

[Spartwo]

Experimenting with replacing my usual LV-N thrusters with LV-909 thrusters. Seems to be working better. Still hard to bring them up to par without using k-drives.

Yea, it's annoying to rebuild with no fixed LF tanks.

[Dark Junior]

So what do I do? after I do that, what do I do? Am I following the rules?

[Three1415]

What would u guys say to a longer term battle that not only involved ships but also interplanetary maneuvers? Id like to start a battle that involves 0 limits to where you can go with your ships, with the only rule that Hedit is limited to ONLY warping your vessels into LKO (say no more then 100km orbit). Im also thinking of making it more a on-going game that doesnt necessarily end, but allows reinforcements later in teh game. Im no pro at orbital maneuuvers, and id be glad to learn from the more experienced players about how to do efficient combat not only from the perspective of weapons/armor, but like Spawtwo suggests, actually focus somewhat on the less obvious stuff like maneuvering. Now if only i could find a way to deal with ion engines and their garbage TWR, its so painful to have to drag 100+ engines for a 100t warship. Where are my 1.25m stock ions

That would be a good idea except for some logistical issues, namely interplanetary maneuvers taking ridiculous amounts of time, which, even in a turn-based setting, might still be enough to mess with things (say, during another person's interplanetary maneuvering, your ship gets slingshotted out of the system by Tylo, or something to that effect). Also, larger ions would be much better...

Finally, ive decided to declassify the Tripedo-S/H and its core is a RoveMax Model XL3 (components are LV-909, reaction wheel, probe core, fuel tank, RTG, wheel,

and decoupler which is so light and just OP). As much as i like this weapon's firepower, i feel there is just no reason to use it (myself id never use it, and id refuse to fight anyone who uses it). The ultra massive rover wheel as a warhead or ramming device needs to be banned from any competitive games or armor will be forever worthless.

I had long suspected that the H-variants used XL3 wheels. Though they might have been counterable in 0.90 or previous, when their impact tolerance (not crash tolerance, which is the point at which the wheel breaks rather than the point at which the part explodes) was still 300 m/s, it was, as of 1.0, almost tripled to 800 m/s, making the wheel effectively a massively oversized structural pylon. Compounding this, its collision mesh is also incredibly odd, which means it can phase through the armor before the game realizes it has contacted the target, so it is probably impossible to actually armor against. I have a few ideas, but I do not think they will succeed in defeating it, and thus it should probably be banned from actual use.

Experimenting with replacing my usual LV-N thrusters with LV-909 thrusters. Seems to be working better. Still hard to bring them up to par without using k-drives.

I shudder at the amount of fuel necessary to get decent delta-v with LV-909s...Is it even possible to get more than 4 km/s without stupidly low payload fractions?

So what do I do? after I do that, what do I do? Am I following the rules?

This probably escaped your notice because comparatively few battles have been occurring as of late, but this forum game is not like the others; you have to actually build and deploy warships in Kerbal Space Program itself, and then formally agree to battle with others by editing such constructed ships into a savegame and taking a combat turn. Feel free to participate if you wish, but you need to be one of the better craft designers in the game to make something decent, not to mention acquire a lot of experience in armoring methods.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Three1415

[panzer1b]

Experimenting with replacing my usual LV-N thrusters with LV-909 thrusters. Seems to be working better. Still hard to bring them up to par without using k-drives.

For me the only viable engimnes sofar (for serious games) are nukes and ions. The biggest issue is that you end up needing a much higher fuel fraction to use 909s, compared to nukes or even better ions (although ions tend to have their own downfalls which ill get into later). Basically, you are either upping the weight and changing the class of your vessel, throwing it into a whole other weight bracket so to speak, or you are thworing out armor or firepower. Ofc you can always elect to sacrifice dV, but ive found that unless its a low-gravity planet, you need to have at a bare minimum 2K to be competitive against a player that actually utilizes orbital maneuvers in the game and doesnt just give you nice easy targets to line up orbit with. In order to get anywhere near this level of dV with the fairly efficint 909s, you are looking at a very high amount of fuel, and even if you use droptanks, its still alot of sheer mass. The only major benefit ive seen from 909s is their ease of armoring and the fact that they are a inherently small thing to hit in the 1st place making loosing all engines a relatively uncommon occurence compared to a nuke ship, especially if you have engines spread out and not all clipped into each other.

That said, nukes are imo the only truly logical choice from a practical perspective. They have the bets dV for any given mass of fuel without requiring absurd part counts. As much as i like ions on paper, and the fact they can be made redundant thru sheer partr counts and spreading engines around, they just make the entire game lag too much, and make something liek a simple burn painfully painful. That, and the need to bring massive amounts of batteries and or solar panels makes it even laggier. Right now, to have a ~100t ship to a single burn from LKO to jool in one shot with ions without using solars, you are looking at an excess of 20 TONS of batteries, that is anywhere from 100 to over 1000 parts just for batteries alone. UIf you choose pure solars, you are limited to closer proximities to the sun, and battles on jool or beyond can be a pain to deal with, and you have issues with brurning to dres, jool, and eeloo since they require burning on dark side of planet. Then ofc all this hardware is extremely vulnurable to attack, and especially solars, and notorious for being unable to take even a glancing blow. Personally, the best way ive found to use ions is batter banks with enough power to let you 1 shot directly to the desired target, that or modding probe cores to act as super high capacity batteries (i do this right now to save part counts, and add dead weight to simulate equivalent batter mass, cheat yes, but considering the sheer annoyance of ion engines part count alone, i dont have much choice if i want 4+ ships spawned in teh same area at once and not lag). Ions are the best on paper, have the best dV, but without some cheaty craft editing, are just not practical at all for anything heavy such as capital ships, fighters they are the bets and only practical choice, but aside from fighters, ions are more problematic then beneficial.

[Dark Junior]

That'll be my project for the next week.

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How do I edit them into a save file?

[daemonCaptrix]

That'll be my project for the next week.

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How do I edit them into a save file?

It's a little poorly explained.

First, you make some ships. Fleets are usually limited by total collective mass, so making a variety of ships of varying weight classes is a good idea. You never know what the mass limit will be until you accept the challenge.

Make a challenge or accept an existing one. Read back over some of the pages for examples before making a challenge, or wait for a new one to start.

Download HyperEdit. It's a mod that allows you to teleport your ships into place at the beginning of the battle. Don't use HyperEdit once the battle starts. Do actual maneuvers.

Post pics of your ships as you invent them. You don't have to do this, but it's fun to see what other people come up with!

Read the OP for the rules once you actually start a battle. Also have fun!

[astecarmyman]

Has anyone experimented with using loaded ore tanks as extremely heavy blunt impacters?

(The large ore tank can hold 15 tons of ore, so I think I may have discovered what the tirepedo H is made of)

[daemonCaptrix]

Has anyone experimented with using loaded ore tanks as extremely heavy blunt impacters?

(The large ore tank can hold 15 tons of ore, so I think I may have discovered what the tirepedo H is made of)

The ore tanks may look a lot like tires, but the tirepedoes are called that because they use actual tires as the warhead. lol

[Dark Junior]

Roger that! thanks!

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I may use one ship at first for my first battle. Kinda test the waters.