Naval Battle Club

[Zamovinar]

  Three1415 said:

I am really beginning to question the worth of multiple layers of armor--testing on my designs has revealed that it is not usually that effective, as seen here. That, or it could just be your missiles...

I think It may just be his missiles. It's very powerful. I've tested an array of weapons on my ship but his is just too powerful.

  Three1415 said:

Regretfully, I think I shall have to scrap my frigate/cruiser design; part count is getting ridiculous again, probably due to hull shape. I shall probably try one more time, but if that fails, the ship will never see active service.

You should really make a new ship and together, let's kill the new Drek XXX LOL

  Three1415 said:

Also, @zekes: This is a question I have had for awhile--is your username pronounced ZEEKS, zee-KEYS, or in some other manner I have not thought of? It would be annoying to discover that I had been hearing it incorrectly, as, unlike most other ones, your username has both English and Latin modes of interpretation, and it is not immediately obvious which one is intended.

I think it's pronounced as ZEEKS. (I have him as a friend on Facebook, I know his true name) Should I tell them your true name zekes? or do they already know?

Quick question on the battle here:

Can I still use those floating missiles? plus how many shots can we do each turn. Does this mean we can unload all our armament?

[zekes]

  Zamovinar said:

I think It may just be his missiles. It's very powerful. I've tested an array of weapons on my ship but his is just too powerful.

This new missile is a major update for my fleet - it's the first new missile in almost a full year. It's capable of damage far greater than previous warheads, and it's shorter, which is important since I stack all of my missiles -they have to be short and thin.

  Zamovinar said:

You should really make a new ship and together, let's kill the new Drek XXX LOL

Oh dear, lol

  Zamovinar said:

I think it's pronounced as ZEEKS. (I have him as a friend on Facebook, I know his true name) Should I tell them your true name zekes? or do they already know?

I'm not afraid to tell them, if they want to know (it's Ezekiel Seraphin)

  Zamovinar said:

Quick question on the battle here:

Can I still use those floating missiles? plus how many shots can we do each turn. Does this mean we can unload all our armament?

Since the ship is destroyed, normally they'd be fair game to recover, and I tried, but since they don't have docking ports they can't be reconnected to a ship, and at the end of a turn, and missiles floating can't be used by other ships - we decided long ago that missiles need a ship to launch off of at the beginning of the turn. Short answer is, no, you can't use them.

As for number of shots, there's no limit to missiles - only limit is it must be all the armament from one ship, to only one other ship, no ramming. Since we're around gilly, where a small missile's knockback could deorbit a ship, I ask that if you do put my ships on suborbital trajectories you don't let them warp into the ground

Good luck on your turn!

EDIT: Speaking of the Drek.... look what finished uploading

Edited January 2, 2015 by zekes

[Three1415]

  \ said:

Well, multiple layers are really only good if they give enough space to provide a missile to clip between the outer and inner layers - you need to get the enemy round to break before it gets to the inner hull.

That is somewhat counterintuitive but matches experimental data--it is probably because KSP calculates impact tolerance based primarily on projectile velocity, so stacking armor layers on top of each other is not really helpful, as all will simply explode simultaneously.

  \ said:

It's pronounced "ZEEKS," - it's a tradition that I use, because a long time ago I had to make a five letter username, and "Zeke" is only four. So I added a posessive "S" that coincidentally is also the first inital of my last name. It works for me

Blast--I always mispronounce usernames, it seems; I had originally presumed it "zee-KEYS" by analogy to "Zokesia" (unless I am mispronouncing that, too ) but then reflected that it was probably "ZEEKS."

  \ said:

You should really make a new ship and together, let's kill the new Drek XXX LOL

IT MUST BURN!

As I said, it is still being redesigned. I hope this revision is more successful...

[zekes]

  Three1415 said:

Blast--I always mispronounce usernames, it seems; I had originally presumed it "zee-KEYS" by analogy to "Zokesia" (unless I am mispronouncing that, too ) but then reflected that it was probably "ZEEKS."

As I said, it is still being redesigned. I hope this revision is more successful...

Zokesia is pronounced "Zoh-KEY-shia"...

Also, have you seen the video? That pretty much shows you what you're fighting...

[Three1415]

  \ said:

Zokesia is pronounced "Zoh-KEY-shia"...

Well, I got that right, at least.

  \ said:

Also, have you seen the video? That pretty much shows you what you're fighting...

I'm afraid you ninja'd me with that video upload. Watching it now...

EDIT: Most impressive. Also, the Drek was originally a fighter, was it not? Now look what you have done to it! It is a behemoth...

Edited January 2, 2015 by Three1415

[zekes]

  Three1415 said:

Most impressive. Also, the Drek was originally a fighter, was it not? Now look what you have done to it! It is a behemoth...

That's the reason I'm getting rid of the Drek designation - the XXX is the last, other than the ones in service now, that will be built upon (the XIV- variants are still going strong)... Since I'm rebuilding the hull anew almost every time now I might as well get some new names as well.

[Three1415]

My versioning logic is as follows:

Every design is technically, upon creation, the [insert design name here] Class [insert class type here] 1 v1 MK I A Var: Standard, though for obvious reasons I do not write that unless necessary.

The last item, Variation, simply states whether the ship is carrying an alternate armament or has been refitted for a different role; it has nothing to do with upgrades or design iterations.

The others work in units of eight: What would be the MK I I is instead the MK II A, what would be the v1 MK VIII I would be the v2 MK I A, and what would be the v8 MK VIII I is instead the 2 v1 MK I A. The 8 v8 MK VIII I would probably just be re-christened, considering that after 8^4 = 4096 upgrades, the design would be unrecognizable as compared to its original form.

I do not know how I would handle branching design trees, however, but I shall probably not use them; I much prefer to upgrade than to restructure.

[Zamovinar]

  zekes said:

All right, Zamonivar, I finally got the ships into position - Here we go.

PERSIST: https://www./?bvhsrcj28y2rd88

ZNS Holden and Snake (Drekevak XIV-XIIs)entered low Gilly orbit to screen the mighty ZNS Talos (Drekevak XXX Mk II), which took a lower orbit.

Snake went first, attacking Auroura C. Two missiles were allocated for this attack, with a third primed in case.

The first missile hit from an ignition range of 700m.

The first shot damaged the engines, armor, fuel, and weapons of the enemy ship, although her hull was intact for the time being.

Missile number two was launched as Snake coasted away from the Aurora C, igniting at a range of 1.5 kilometers up to 100 m/s, but then coasted until the final 400 meters. The missile destroyed the core of the ship; her armor, weapons, and cockpits drifted apart harmlessly, their trajectory just barely orbital.

Snake coasted to apsis, and then circularized at altitude slightly higher than the other two enemy ships.

Fighting over Gilly is weird, I always find myself on escape trajectory.

Aurora A moved into position to engage ZNX Holden.

I first moved into position within 5 km firing range then released my first missile. It made an intercept trajectory to it's target.

At about 250+ meters I checked the ship and moved my missile to get a good angle of attack.

I launched and triggered my missile at about 200+ meters then hit the frontal section of the ship and the bridge (Those missiles are not to bad I guess).

I only managed to remove the first layer of armor but otherwise the ZNX Holden is still considered a lethal threat (still complete with engines and armament).

I never moved Aurora A from it's current orbital position. I placed it there, it's all or nothing for that ship.

This set of Aurora's or "Flotilla" are just here for one thing and one thing only, to gather info on the Dreks (such as structural integrity and armor).

Fortunately for me you used the Drek XXX I will now have info on that soon.

KRAKEN FACTION High Command has insisted that this be a high priority mission. Experimental Ship Testing is on hold.

(I haven't even looked at the ZNS Talos yet, even on the tracking station map and the ship map I want to see her up close even though it's frightening)

Javascript is disabled. View full album

The reason I took quite sometime before posting my results:

1. I was watching a movie with my friends (just watched "The Interview") and late new year gathering and talking.

2. My computer is already at its limit, every time I play it lags like hell, I guess I really need to make low part count ships.

3. Although aiming is automatic now with 0.90 update, missiles still needs manual adjusting just to hit the right spot. It took me 2 tries to hit your ship properly on the center because it was directed at the crew module. It also crashed 2 times.

One more thing:

Could you just take one shot at a time every turn? I assumed this is how this works, one shot per turn. You took two shots at my ship not to mention you are the first one take the shot. I'm feeling that I'm at a disadvantage here.

PERSIST: http://www./download/701lieyh1w1br2f/Your+turn.sfs

[Megalodon 720]

I managed to build the Praegrandis with just 440 parts, I might be able to add a partial second layer of heavy armour.

Actually, I'll just make some aesthetic changes.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Megalodon 720

[zekes]

  Zamovinar said:

-snip-

Could you just take one shot at a time every turn? I assumed this is how this works, one shot per turn. You took two shots at my ship not to mention you are the first one take the shot. I'm feeling that I'm at a disadvantage here.

All right, one shot - pretty lucky, if I say so myself. It clipped just the right amount, straight through. Holden just held her position. Your move. (and you can fire all your missiles this turn, since it's your last ship).

PERSIST: http://www./download/t214nuc46175723/Turn.sfs

Edited January 2, 2015 by zekes

[Megalodon 720]

The way in which Zamovinar's ship splits is familiar, reminds me of my own ships before I started building them around a central spine.

[zekes]

  Megalodon 720 said:

The way in which Zamovinar's ship splits is familiar, reminds me of my own ships before I started building them around a central spine.

Yeah, its weird how they split - if you look at this picture, my Popper missile is still going - it destroyed the core and is now pressed up against the opposite armor wall I think all that heavy armor isn't helping because it's so close to the centerline. It means the armor is not much help against a 250m/s punching projectile - the missile just phases through and breaks the ship inside. Ive noticed the last frame I see when the missile hits, it is a full body length inside the Aurora - which meant the next frame was the explosion pattern and death of the ship. Knowing how fast to go to clip certain missiles is important.

[Megalodon 720]

Good ol' SRB and structural pylons are fine for me.

Also, do you mind shooting a Victory for me? I want MOAR things to improve on.

Download.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Megalodon 720

[zekes]

  Megalodon 720 said:

Good ol' SRB and structural pylons are fine for me.

yeah, that doesn't work for me for several reasons:

- SRB has no throttle control (And therefore, speed is regulated by distance and can't be changed afterwards)

- SRB can't be turned around in case the shot misses (mine can)

- SRB is long ( Popper missiles are less than half the length)

- SRB is simple (the whoe point of a missile is to clip into a ship and wreck it with explosions, that's why my 5-ton Popper missiles are 44 parts each)

- SRB cannot perform plane changes (my favorite trick - rather than rendezvouses with the enemy ship, I put my less-than-maneuverable Dreks on intercept paths, release missile within 2km limit, and then stop the missile while my ship flys out of loading range. It saves ship fuel and helps part count when firing).

So there are my reasons behind my Popper missiles - 5 tonnes, 1,500 m/s range, and just a bit longer than an FL-T 200 tank.

[Megalodon 720]

I need to keep part count down though, especially on Victory, so my 11 part SRB-powered missiles are good enough for my ship.

I could build a popper-type missile, and replace two of my SRBs with them.

[zekes]

  Megalodon 720 said:

I need to keep part count down though, especially on Victory, so my 11 part SRB-powered missiles are good enough for my ship.

I could build a popper-type missile, and replace two of my SRBs with them.

Yeah, i tend to ingore part count on warships, since its turn based i can take my time and enjoy the lag

For you, where it really is an issue, probably a good idea to carry one or two armor peircing rounds, and the rest simple SRBs, that way if you really come against a hard ship, you can always throw SRBs at it untill you crack its armor, then put one popper in the crack for a nice clean kill. For normal combat SRBs are fine, but those one or two long-range missiles can save you if you're low on D/V and the enemy's resorted to a strange orbit in the hopes of out-ranging you.

[Megalodon 720]

Yep, I'm now developing my own 'popper' style missile.

I'll use two of them at the front of my Victory class and leave 6 SRBs, that should work fine.

[zekes]

  Megalodon 720 said:

Yep, I'm now developing my own 'popper' style missile.

I'll use two of them at the front of my Victory class and leave 6 SRBs, that should work fine.

Or, even better idea is to put them somewere not attached to the other missiles, so that a single hit can't take off all your weaponry - I do that now with every ship I have.

The XIV-XII has three missile points - the armored barrel (to carry four poppers), and two on the rear. This means there's no way to get a lucky shot and knock off the weapons - it would take at least three shots to disable it that way.

The XXX has four - two on the nose (which hold four poppers each), and two on the wings (three missiles each), for a grand total of 14 missiles. With such a big ship, it would be disastrous to lose the weaponry in combat, or the engines - they're spread out too.

[Zamovinar]

  zekes said:

Yeah, its weird how they split - if you look at this picture, my Popper missile is still going - it destroyed the core and is now pressed up against the opposite armor wall I think all that heavy armor isn't helping because it's so close to the centerline. It means the armor is not much help against a 250m/s punching projectile - the missile just phases through and breaks the ship inside. Ive noticed the last frame I see when the missile hits, it is a full body length inside the Aurora - which meant the next frame was the explosion pattern and death of the ship. Knowing how fast to go to clip certain missiles is important.

Ok I admit defeat. The way my ship is designed has a flaw which allows spontaneous destruction. The whole structure is built around the core module. I still have plenty of things to improve on. But I swear that armor worked pretty fine when I tested it with my missiles. Your missiles are just too powerful I guess. I should really start making the root core part be the structural girder not the lander module. Megalodon 720 has taught me a lot of things on how to construct a proper hull plus I have learned how your ship is built. I'm gonna base my ship on that plus I may have made the huge mistake of changing the reactive armor with fuel tanks. My first generation armor worked fine, why did I ever change that.

Plus you can actually make a controllable SRB-SRM, although a bulky design you could control it when the solid fuel is fired. I made one by attaching Monopropellant tanks on the side without additional length, it serves as it's main propulsion before firing the solid fuel. Look at the Pic. To tell the truth this ship is a lot tougher than the "Aurora".

[zekes]

  Zamovinar said:

Ok I admit defeat. The way my ship is designed has a flaw which allows spontaneous destruction. The whole structure is built around the core module. I still have plenty of things to improve on. But I swear that armor worked pretty fine when I tested it with my missiles. Your missiles are just too powerful I guess. I should really start making the root core part be the structural girder not the lander module. Megalodon 720 has taught me a lot of things on how to construct a proper hull plus I have learned how your ship is built. I'm gonna base my ship on that plus I may have made the huge mistake of changing the reactive armor with fuel tanks. My first generation armor worked fine, why did I ever change that.

Plus you can actually make a controllable SRB-SRM, although a bulky design you could control it when the solid fuel is fired. I made one by attaching Monopropellant tanks on the side without additional length, it serves as it's main propulsion before firing the solid fuel. Look at the Pic. To tell the truth this ship is a lot tougher than the "Aurora".

http://i.imgur.com/5tM5gZs.jpg

I've had that happen to me before - one time I went into battle with four XIV-XIs that had their root part blow itself out half the time.... I lost two of them, the most i've lost in a while.

Also, i've found that fuel tanks tend to explode more than normal structural parts, so your armor might be blowing itself up because of that. I've found sticking with the armor you know is probably a good idea, always.

Also, making the root part the lander module is a horrible idea You want your root part to be as tough as possible.

Good luck fixing your ship and remember, winning never teaches you as much as losing does. Much of my knowledge in combat comes from getting beaten.

Edited January 2, 2015 by zekes

[Zamovinar]

I'm a few generations late compared to your ships and everybody elses. So just I'll post here when I'm done with another one. Hopefully it should be low part count and sturdy.

[zekes]

  Zamovinar said:

Hopefully it should be low part count and sturdy.

I've never managed to get those two to work together

[Megalodon 720]

I have! I HOLD THE SECRET!

[Three1415]

I feel like all of my ships could just get one-shotted by current-generation weapons; even with several layers of armor using the techniques I have seen, all of them seem to suffer critical damage even against small missiles.

[Megalodon 720]

I've been working on this:

The old Mk-V Victory has some problems that I've only just noticed, and some are only fixable by completely re-designing the craft.

So I made a new Victory class, with weapons attached to 4 points (That means that it would take four shots to disarm her).

She is armed with four of my own 'Popper' missiles and four SRB-powered missiles.