Launcher-ception

[CavemanNinja]

Because who wouldn't want an SLS hanging around in orbit!

Your task here is to build a launcher, then build a launcher for that, and again, so on, so forth.

Points will be awarded for tonnage in orbit, what body you launched from, and for how many "launcher" stages you have in orbit.

POINTS:

2 points for every ton in orbit

-.2 points for every ton at launch

((2x) * above points) for each "launcher" stage in orbit (x = how many launcher stages in orbit)

HARD MODE:

x3.5 points for launching from Eve

x2 points for launching from Tylo

x2.5 points for launching from Laythe

x5 points for "launching"* from Jool

x1.5 points for launching from Duna

Mods allowed are: KW rocketry, Mechjeb, FAR (gets its own leaderboard), and Spaceplane Plus for all you SSTO'ers!

*Those who intend on "launching" from Jool must start their launch at an altitude of 0m.

-Point of clarification, a launcher "stage" must be able to reach orbit by itself and with the launcher it's carrying also being able to make orbit by itself.

LEADERBOARD:

1.Jolly_Roger, 56337.96!!

2.sdj64, 47192.4!

3.zarakon, 26,187.2!

4.Jolly_Roger, 3281.57

5.CavemanNinja, 930.4

Edited August 19, 2014 by CavemanNinja

[zarakon]

POINTS:

2 points for every ton in orbit

-.5 points for every ton at launch

You might want to re-think that. This scoring means you need a 25% payload fraction just to break even

I have a gigantic 5-ception launcher-launcher-launcher-launcher-launcher from a similar challenge (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/79229-Space-Launch-System-Launch-System), but with these rules my score would be massively negative

Consider this my entry though:

Alright, here's the full gallery for my new one, also level 5. The good pictures are at the end!

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- 2 simple vertical stages per level

- No asparagus, onion, or drop tanks

- Used tweakable fuel tanks to reduce weight of upper levels (and flew them with the reduced fuel, of course)

- Level 5 is about 2.5x the weight of the Saturn V and has 2.8x the first-stage thrust

- I had to use DynamicWarp to slow down the game for level 5

Or this one, whichever ends up counting for more points:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/79229-Space-Launch-System-Launch-System?p=1156659&viewfull=1#post1156659

Edited August 12, 2014 by zarakon

[CavemanNinja]

@zakaron

True. I'm going to bump it down a bit, because I hadn't calculated my own score before writing that.

My entry, and not a very good one at that.

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930.4 points, an easily beatable score.

Zarakon, if you'll add up your points I will gladly put both entries on the leaderboard.

Edited August 12, 2014 by CavemanNinja

[zarakon]

So my numbers are..

Full launcher: 6865.5 tons

Payload in orbit: 1147 tons

Mostly-empty second stage, which is also in orbit: ??? -- I'll try to figure this out later, either by re-flying or with calculations. I'll call it just 247.5 for now, which is just the weight of the 15 engines, plus two empty orange and one empty grey tank per engine.

Launcher levels remaining in orbit: 4

(((1147 + 247.5) * 2) - (6865.5 * 0.2)) * 2^4

= (2789 - 1373.1) * 16

= 22654.4 (higher if I add in the extra fuel and structural parts in the second stage)

edit:

Comparing the in-orbit resources to the resources in the level-4 at launch, I can see that I have 8854 liquidfuel and 10821 oxidizer left in that second stage. That's an extra 98.4 tons of fuel. Then there are 15 XL girders and 15 large ASAS units, which are another 12 tons together. That all brings the total score up to...

(((1147 + 247.5 + 98.4 + 12) * 2) - (6865.5 * 0.2)) * 2^4

= (3009.8 - 1373.1) * 16

= 26187.2

Edited August 12, 2014 by zarakon

[CavemanNinja]

Good lord almightly, that was quite a bit higher than expected!

Excellent work my friend.

EDIT:

Watch your back zarakon, I've got three "stages" in orbit!

Edited August 12, 2014 by CavemanNinja

[sdj64]

Hmm yes it's very much like the SLSLS challenge I posted a while back. On that thread there was discussion that jet-powered stages could improve the score by a lot before you ran into the weight and size limit. But no entries in the jets category... This also differs by the no manned pod requirement. That should potentially open up one more possible stage with rockets only.

Duna is significantly easier to get off of than Kerbin, some 1800 dV instead of 4500. It should be like x0.4 not x1.5. Tylo and Laythe are also easier (2500 and 3200 dV respectively). Assuming that you Hyperedit your initial rocket onto the surface of the planet before you start. Even Whackjob can't build a rocket big enough to get zarakon's creation all the way to land on Duna intact.

Since I didn't make a real entry for my challenge, I'll try this.

[zarakon]

I'd assume that hyperedit is not allowed

And yeah, I'd probably be able to redesign for a 6-level rocket if I replaced the manned pod with a mini probe rocket, especially if I went back to asparagus nonsense

BTW I edited my score calculation above to account for most of the rest of the stuff

Edited August 13, 2014 by zarakon

[CavemanNinja]

Correct, hyperedit is not a listed mod, and therefore you have to get the craft there manually somehow, which accounts for the lower dV numbers.

fixed the score.

[sdj64]

Alright, plus, you can use jets on Kerbin but not on Duna. I've got a level 4 (puts 3 stacked launchers in orbit) that weighs just about 10 tons using jets. Going to keep going, I bet that jets can make it past level 10.

Edit: doing the math, I'm getting about 50% payload fraction. That means so far a level 10 would be 640 tons. Within reason, but if part count goes up in tandem (each is roughly 50% part count payload) then it'll have too many parts for my computer.

Edited August 13, 2014 by sdj64

[CavemanNinja]

Had to scrap my original design, turns out the throttle lag on KW rockets is just too much when you go big, enough to waste a LOT of fuel.

MOAR jets time!

EDIT:

you made me do it.

Three part SSTO. I'm so sorry.

Update:

4 stages in orbit and haven't even broken mainsail level yet. 275 parts...

On a side note, I just rediscovered the joy that is mainsails coupled with larger diameter tanks.

Edited August 14, 2014 by CavemanNinja

[sdj64]

Had to scrap my original design, turns out the throttle lag on KW rockets is just too much when you go big, enough to waste a LOT of fuel.

MOAR jets time!

EDIT:

you made me do it.

Three part SSTO. I'm so sorry.

Don't be. My first stage is 12 parts, but only 0.8 tons...

[sdj64]

Here you go. I made it to 10! not 10 complete launchers in orbit, but 10 off the ground.

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This pile of ridiculousness earns me...

2298 tons in orbit

9871 tons on the ground

9 full launchers remaining in orbit

((2 * 2298) - (0.2 * 9871)) * (2 * 9) = 47192.4

Zakaron used 2 ^ 4, not 2 * 4, so if he's reading the formula correctly, mine would be ((2 * 2298) - (0.2 * 9871)) * (2 ^ 9) = 1342361.6

As a thought experiment, I could have used the two largest launcher stages together to take the top 8 to Laythe. Launcher 8 was about 220 tons at liftoff, and 67 in orbit. Only 3150 points for that. (28800 using 2^7 instead of 2*7) So taking off of Kerbin is the better option by far.

[CavemanNinja]

oh my Kod... and i thought 4 jet stages was overkill....

I'm going to need a serious redesign to beat that...

(scoring updated, i realized that it being exponential made a massive difference once you got enough stages up.)

Edited August 14, 2014 by CavemanNinja

[Jett_Quasar]

This is my unofficial entry, since sdj64 did such a good job of smashing the high score I've had to re-design my official entry and in the mean time here's something I had worked on previously that actually gets a total score over 3000 (which would put me on the leaderboard right now) and looks really cool too! It's my version of a Dreadnaught from the Star Wars games. I docked two small SSTO stages in the left and right hangar bays and turned it into a 3 stage nested SSTO for this challenge. The starting and finishing stats are pictured below.

The only difference in part count between ground and orbit are the launch clamps.

The calculation is: ((2 x 444.26) - (0.2 x 1707.96)) x (2 x 3)

((888.52) - (341.59)) x (6)

=

3281.57

Here are all the pictures I've compiled while working on the Dreadnaught SSTO...

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JR

Edited August 13, 2015 by Jolly_Roger

[Jett_Quasar]

OK so for a while there I didn't think it was possible to beat sdj64's score but I guess nothing is impossible so here it is... done without any mods of any kind. Pre-liftoff weight tips the scales at just over 13000 tonnes and the starting part count is exactly 617 - I didn't use launch clamps to save weight and to simplify the design.

Final orbit shown with stats and a picture of the full 6-stage SSTO in orbit (inset) - the orbit is 72 x 93 Km so I wasted a bit of fuel on the burn but with a total mass over 3700 tonnes I'm OK with it. Notice also the part count is still 617 and over 140,000 units of liquid fuel

That gives a calculated score of: ((2 x 3712.4) - (0.2 x 13649.85)) x (2 x 6)

((7424.8) - (2729.97)) x (12)

(4694.83) x (12)

= 56337.96

Whew! I think I'm going to take a break now.

JR

Edited August 13, 2015 by Jolly_Roger

[CavemanNinja]

Wow. wow.

Excellent work guys, really love it!

(back to the drwaing board for me )

Oh, and by the way, if anybody breaks 80k, i'll try my best to make a sig pic for all that participated, if not "hire" an artist to do it!

Edited August 19, 2014 by CavemanNinja

[CavemanNinja]

Good lord...

I can't get my current design to even clear 6 stages

You guys are crazy, i think i might have to break out the huge 5m KW fuel tanks.

[problemecium]

Um, guys? Wasn't there already a challenge about this called Space Launch System Launch System Launch System?

[Jett_Quasar]

I believe that had a manned requirement - this doesn't.

JR