[WIP] Revamping science!

[Tassyr]

So I'm not a huge fan of how science works now; how you have to really dig to get even the barest minimum out of anything. A mission will only get one or two shots per item, and if you can't retrieve the ship you only get a few pitiful points from transmission... I want to change that.

I'm looking at doing three things now:

One: Reduce the curve. Just because I took the temperature once doesn't mean that taking a temperature on that entire planet should be nixed forever.

Two: No more one shots. Look, I get it, it's a nice idea, but it means I have to make ships almost entirely out of goo and science kits. No.

Three: Reduce the transmission penalty on some science. I get it; you can't learn everything about say, a rock sample or atmospheric sample without the sample right there in your hands. (or a flask or something.) But transmitting a number about the TEMPERATURE shouldn't lose a lot of value, as it's just... well, a six digit number at most...

[edit] I've managed to make two and three work; now all I need is help making the first.

To accommodate people who might not want the goo/kit to be rerunnable, I broke it up into two .cfg files. Modulemanager is required and included. Simply extract whichever you want directly into gamedata.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bcjldlxfvvi5cuh/KinderScience.zip

Also if anyone knows how to make a module hold more than one science sample- and would tell me how to do it- I'd be infinitely grateful!

Edited August 15, 2014 by Tassyr
Actually got things working!

[dtoxic]

i like the one and three good idea

[sebi.zzr]

I can help you with 2 and 3,for example for goocanister:

MODULE

{

name = ModuleScienceExperiment

experimentID = mysteryGoo

experimentActionName = Observe Mystery Goo

resetActionName = Reset Goo Canister

useStaging = False

useActionGroups = True

hideUIwhenUnavailable = True

xmitDataScalar = 0.3 // here you chnge value for transmission from 0 to 1 in %. 1=100%

FxModules = 0

dataIsCollectable = True

collectActionName = Collect Data

interactionRange = 1.2 // here is the range you need to be if you whant to colect data( i think value is in meters)

rerunnable = True // add this line if you whant to run it again after colecting data.

}

it applies to all other experiments.

You could also look here and here.

Edited August 15, 2014 by sebi.zzr

[Tassyr]

I can help you with 2 and 3,for example for goocanister:

MODULE

{

name = ModuleScienceExperiment

experimentID = mysteryGoo

experimentActionName = Observe Mystery Goo

resetActionName = Reset Goo Canister

useStaging = False

useActionGroups = True

hideUIwhenUnavailable = True

xmitDataScalar = 0.3 // here you chnge value for transmission from 0 to 1 in %. 1=100%

FxModules = 0

dataIsCollectable = True

collectActionName = Collect Data

interactionRange = 1.2 // here is the range you need to be if you whant to colect data( i think value is in meters)

rerunnable = True // add this line if you whant to run it again after colecting data.

}

it applies to all other experiments.

You could also look here and here.

Excellent, thanks for the tips. Though this might take forever; I've several science mods attached! XD

[Daveroski]

A good kick start in the new career mode is to do the missions for 'on the launch pad' and the record altitude missions.

when doing the 'on the launchpad' missions. If you have researched the item in question, simply carry out the mission as instructed. Testing an item on the lauchpad doesn't really need the item connected to anything other than a command pod. Connect the item to a command pod. Launch the vessel. Right click the item to test and select 'run test.' Then recover the vessel. Job Done. Full Refund.

When doing the high altitude record missions, only go to the altitude specified and return to the ground. Recover the vessel. There are a number of these missions one after the other at increasing altitudes. Then do the escape the atmosphere then the orbit.

During each of these missions which require a flight, it is possible to do some science. Take two of any science experiment available. Perform one at the apogee (highest point) and one when you land. If you are smart, you can try to land in a different biome each time and so get more science. Don't forget 'crew reports', 'eva's' and 'surface samples' when landed in new biomes on kerbin still add science.

Collecting Science is and should be a repetitive process. The thing that changes most is ship design. As you get more of the tree unlocked you get to build better ships and get more science equipment.

Got a new bit of science equipment? See if you can get a mission which will allow you to use it twice.

Kerbin has biomes. As does The Mun and Mimnus.

It is possible to get most if not all of the tech tree unlocked, using only The Mun and it's great many biomes. Mimnus will fill out the others.

When exploring planets it is more fun to have all of the science equipment available before you go. Even though you may not need the data, it is still fun to collect.

Currently when playing, I tend to challenge myself by accomplishing a grand mission using poor tech. Usually just after I have a docking port and can haul some fuel into orbit so that.

I have landed on Duna several times and wished then that I had more sciece experiment with me. But what ever I take to duna, I will sometimes take six of the same experiment. Three for duna, and three for ike. In each case the same experiment can be perfomed in high orbit, low orbit, and on the surface.

More often I will only take three of everything and just do Duna and return. It is very difficult, sometimes, to take six junior science kits. Three can be challenging enough.

Once the goo or the science kit has been exposed to a celestial body, exposing it to another would invalidate both experiments. Makes sense.

The transmission penalty is there to dissuade you from letting your kerbal crash and burn once you have the data. He boldy went. Now bring him home. You need more than one temerature? Take more than one thermometer. They are not regular thermometers like the ones one may occasionally insert rectally. No. These digital babies are precise and lock their data in. Sure they will give at-a-glance readings but they only memorise one. (from my fill-in-the-blanks-imagination-kit).

If you are smart and can use a text editor, you could always edit your save and give yourself more science. I would advise against doing such a thing if you are an idiot as changing some parts will break your save. I would also advise against doing such a thing if you are smart as the struggle in the beginning can be most rewarding and a great mental exercise.

I often wish that the developers would add resources as the logistics would be most entertaining. But there are mods.

The developers let you make space-planes and did not include even a most basic cargo hold. I'm sure that it wasn't out of laziness but just to make things more challenging. Still there are mods.

I'm sure that after you have built your fist Rover and find a challenging (as realistic as possible) way of getting it to Rove in your desired location, you will feel like a true head of a space program.

No one can guess what the developers will come up with next when the most downloaded mod for this game is held in such low regard.

One of the most common phrases in any laboratory is Do-It-Again.

[Tassyr]

Well. Using modulemanager I have a .cfg file that allows the stock projects to be rerun. There's step one;

Feel free to test it. https://www.dropbox.com/s/jkgxacfyed0ei7y/ScienceRebalance0_1.cfg

[Tassyr]

SNIP (That was far too long to just sit there.)

Ye gods, that's a dissertation. Yes, I know there are many biomes. Yes, I know I can do things on the launchpad to get a boost. I'm simply saying that in my opinion, the tiny returns are way too punishing- I don't want to have to run scores of missions around Kerbin and the Mun just to get my science up.

Additionally, I don't kill my Kerbals. If I send a Kerbal up, he's coming home, no matter what. I like to think others play that way. If they don't, I doubt this mod'll make people commit mass Kerbicide.

Also the 'multiple thermometer' thing is just bunk. Nasa sends a probe to Mars; it sits there and takes temperature readings over the course of a day. It's still just a flipping number, and sent back by radio. I think that's enough to justify my editing that. (Though ironically those WERE rerunnable from the start.) I can't think of a single thing that NASA would gain from having the thermometer in their hands, blinking "0 degrees C" instead of reading it from afar.

I understand the logic behind making the goo or science kit not rerunnable, but I disagree simply because I think it's a bit too punishing to have an extremely large, heavy chunk of metal hanging off my ship that's now just dead weight. For reference, I'm not completely turning those into 1:1 ratios on transmissions, either. Closer to 3:4. (From 1:3 for the Goo and 1:5 for the Kit.)

And, as with all mods, if you disagree... you don't have to use it.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Tassyr

[Daveroski]

And, as with all mods, if you disagree... you don't have to use it.

Despite my 'disertation', I have failed to make myself understood.

In no way was I besmirching mods. I use mods myself. My Environment is visually enhanced. My kerbals chatter and my kerbonauts have life support. Without these three, the game feels rather bland. I consider them 'stock'.

I can fly to any planet without aid of any kind.

I can land without an autopilot.

I can do all the orbital manoeuvres in the vanilla game.

But that doesn't mean I enjoy doing it all the time, for every mission. MechJeb to the rescue! It can take a lot of the grind out of a game.

A lot of the time, I still do it all myself. However, MechJeb is dead handy for circularising orbits, rendezvous, even the occasional landing.

I'm doing more space planes now and I always land those myself because mechjeb is just a few feet short of being perfect (Space plane landing probably can be done with mechjeb but I think it would involve having different settings for different aircraft and frankly it's easier to just do it myself.

After all, if a game becomes too much hard work, it stops being fun.

So as far as I'm concerned, you should play it however you want to. What ever makes the game more fun for you is ok by me.

Far too many people are arguing about how the game should be played.

Personally I love that other people often play differently to me. Reading their posts can often give me ideas to try.

MechJeb is of course the most downloaded of all mods and yet it is the cause of the most contention.

If someone wants to use mechjeb for everything. I say go for it. If they prefer to do everything manually then that's fine too.

Likewise, if you want to edit CFGs, I have no objection whatsoever.

I think that there should have been a cargo hold as a stock item but the modder that did the spaceplane parts and got employed by squad, never did one. I think it might have something to do with the animation.

The only really animated parts we have in the game are legs and ladders.. and the ladders don't work properly.

A basic cargo hold in the stock game would open so many doors for modders (no pun intended)

Anyway, I hope that this 'dissertation' corrected any misunderstandings from the first one.

[JeffreyCor]

1 and 3 are exactly what I've wanted and tinkered with. Thank you for this and great work

[Tassyr]

snip

Ah, apologies. I thought it was a criticism saying you didn't approve. I misunderstood.