Is it Possible to Link Three Asteroids in a Triangle?

[Diodon]

Lets say you have three asteroids (A, B, C) nearby that you want to bind together in a triangular formation using three spacecraft which each have two advanced grabbing units on either end. I don't see any issue with linking A to B and B to C as well as linking the third spacecraft to C but will it let you also link that craft back to A? Fortunately the AGU has an unlockable pivot so flexibility shouldn't be the issue. Once you reach this point all the parts are essentially treated as a single ship so I'm not sure if the game would let you effectively link a ship to itself to complete the triangle.

I'm in the process of attempting this, but if someone knows that the game engine won't allow it I'd like to plan for a different arrangement.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Diodon

[M4ck]

AFAIK if it works with any other part - you can create a station with multiple connections forming a kind of a ring - it should work just as well with asteroids, other than they are quite massive(the larger ones, at least). They seem to be treated like regular parts, after all.

[Diodon]

Hmm, but in the station example you'll wind up with an even trickier situation. With the grabber you just have to enable it but with docking ports don't you have to target a docking port on a different ship to dock to? How would you be able to dock to a port that is effectively on the same ship?

Edit: Thanks M4ck for the feedback!

Edited August 26, 2014 by Diodon

[Claw]

Yes you can. Docking ports are impractical because of difficulty with placement.

When using the claws, you'll have to be very particular about getting them hooked up to the asteroids in close to the right positions. Once you get the third asteroid on and attach the third joining piece, you'll likely have to unlock one of the claws for it to act like a hinge. Then you'll need some RCS modules on the free end to help swing it into the other claw. It'll take a lot of time and patience, because you'll have to get the last claw to hit the asteroid at the correct angle to get it to hook.

And be advised that sometimes the Claw has been known to do wacky things when attempting stuff like this. Not all the time, but don't be surprised if everything explodes or goes racing out of the solar system.

Cheers,

~Claw

[Diodon]

Yes you can. Docking ports are impractical because of difficulty with placement.

When using the claws, you'll have to be very particular about getting them hooked up to the asteroids in close to the right positions. Once you get the third asteroid on and attach the third joining piece, you'll likely have to unlock one of the claws for it to act like a hinge. Then you'll need some RCS modules on the free end to help swing it into the other claw. It'll take a lot of time and patience, because you'll have to get the last claw to hit the asteroid at the correct angle to get it to hook.

And be advised that sometimes the Claw has been known to do wacky things when attempting stuff like this. Not all the time, but don't be surprised if everything explodes or goes racing out of the solar system.

Cheers,

~Claw

Sweet thanks for the info! Just need to gather one more asteroid! I totally expect that the physics engine could get grumpy with me, though that can be its own fun in KSP no?

Heck, if the triangle works I might just try to go for a tetrahedron if I'm feeling particularly masochistic.

[Mesons]

I haven't tried this for a while (maybe I will today), but I tried to make a ring station in 0.21. Connecting multiple docking ports to different parts of two vessels had me a bit worried, but both connected, and it seemed my fears were allayed...until I loaded the vessel again, that is. After switching to another vessel and coming back to my station, all objects docked at two ports undocked their second one (second attached). As part of undocking, the magnets of those ports were deactivated, so to reattach them each section of the station had to be fully undocked, moved away 10m or so to reset the ports, then moved back in and re-docked. This made the station ultimately not worth it for me. Hopefully this has been fixed in the last 3 updates, but here's fair warning in case it hasn't.

tl;dr: Last I checked, multiple-port-docked craft don't remain connected on all ports after loading vessel again

[Diodon]

I haven't tried this for a while (maybe I will today), but I tried to make a ring station in 0.21. Connecting multiple docking ports to different parts of two vessels had me a bit worried, but both connected, and it seemed my fears were allayed...until I loaded the vessel again, that is. After switching to another vessel and coming back to my station, all objects docked at two ports undocked their second one (second attached). As part of undocking, the magnets of those ports were deactivated, so to reattach them each section of the station had to be fully undocked, moved away 10m or so to reset the ports, then moved back in and re-docked. This made the station ultimately not worth it for me. Hopefully this has been fixed in the last 3 updates, but here's fair warning in case it hasn't.

tl;dr: Last I checked, multiple-port-docked craft don't remain connected on all ports after loading vessel again

Thanks for the heads up! Yea, I'll definitely be doing a lot of quick-saves though I'll probably add the step of swapping back and forth to another ship periodically to ensure it is stable on load. If things get too unstable I'll just fall back to using a central hub with branches that grab on to the asteroids.

[Mesons]

I tested this* in vanilla today, and it seems like it might have been fixed! It could also have been related to the undocking bug that I think got fixed in previous versions. Perhaps I will set about making a complex station soon, then...

*Multi-port docking

Edited August 27, 2014 by Mesons
Footnote

[Diodon]

I tested this* in vanilla today, and it seems like it might have been fixed! It could also have been related to the undocking bug that I think got fixed in previous versions. Perhaps I will set about making a complex station soon, then...

*Multi-port docking

Was up late last night testing this with the three class C asteroids I collected. Each 'strut' was laid out like X==+==X where 'X' is a grabber, '=' is a structural fuselage, and '+' is a 6-way connector. The remaining ports on the 6-way were docking ports used by a tug ship to position the strut assembly. I managed to connect two asteroids and place two more struts to accept the third asteroid. I was just about to run out of RCS fuel when the asteroid finally reached the assembly... at which point the game crashed.

I'll re-attempt after I implement a better asteroid RCS strategy.

[Mesons]

As I've been finding out, claws are pretty buggy. I hope you quicksaved! I've heard that the 6-way connector has some issues too (and experienced some connecting problems).

While trying to test the bug whose report I linked above, I also found that something on my testing ship was causing a kraken attack upon entering non-physical time warp, and I suspect it had to do with having 3 claws on my ship. More testing when I have time, but it may not happen before my looming vacation...

Good luck getting things to work! Save often and perhaps on multiple saves.

[MarvinKitFox]

Lets say you have three asteroids (A, B, C) nearby that you want to bind together in a triangular formation using three spacecraft which each have two advanced grabbing units on either end. I don't see any issue with linking A to B and B to C as well as linking the third spacecraft to C but will it let you also link that craft back to A? Fortunately the AGU has an unlockable pivot so flexibility shouldn't be the issue. Once you reach this point all the parts are essentially treated as a single ship so I'm not sure if the game would let you effectively link a ship to itself to complete the triangle.

I'm in the process of attempting this, but if someone knows that the game engine won't allow it I'd like to plan for a different arrangement.

Possible, yes.

But not using claws only.

by the time you have joined ships 123 with asteroids ABC into a line 1A2B3C you end up with one "ship"

Ship cannot claw itself, thus fail.

simple fix though, have the last attachment be by docking port. ship CAN dock with itself

[tater]

Any 3 linked asteroids except 3 a dead straight line is a triangle

[Mesons]

simple fix though, have the last attachment be by docking port. ship CAN dock with itself

Good point, I think you will need to do this, Diodon. Any progress?

[Diodon]

Possible, yes.

But not using claws only.

Yes! With claws only!

Good point, I think you will need to do this, Diodon. Any progress?

It is complete!

It's remarkably stable... until you make the final attachment, then it comes to life in a terrifying way to rival that ship from Event Horizon. At first it just starts slowly rotating... then undulating. All of which are fascinating until you realize the scale of the thing! Unclamping the various service craft I used to assemble it calmed the beast but returning to it from the tracking station or, god forbid, time-warping lead invariably to a cascading resonance that in mere moments leads horrifying events of catastrophic proportions! Key features of the event typically involve rapid bending, stretching, breaking, violent explosions, and three enormous rocks cast randomly into new orbits (one hopes).

I nearly gave up trying this because of how hard it was to maneuver the third asteroid into position. The final linkage to create the loop is achieved by unlocking a joint and applying thrust. Compounding my difficulties was the severe slowdown I experienced which was only partly mitigated by removing all but essential craft and components. I am largely confident that any other configuration would have been fine except for one that involves a loop.

I can provide additional images if anyone has interest.

Edit: I should clarify that those 'claw strut' assemblies use four docking ports each simply to allow the tug to grab them for installation. The ends of the 6 way connector in line with the claw struts are normal attachments, not docking attachments. The ship in the lower left is one of the refuelable asteroid tugs used to capture, circularize, and bring the inclination to 0 degrees. Barely visible in the top right is a fourth claw strut I brought as a spare and for symmetry on the lifting craft. Jeb is piloting the small tug used to move the struts and is attached to the extra strut at the moment. The lower left asteroid is also covered in RCS pods as it was the final asteroid moved into place.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Diodon