[1.4.1] Kerbal Construction Time 1.4.0.69 (2018-03-24) - Unrapid Planned Assembly

[vardicd]

Is there a way to refuel a plane landed at the runway, rather than having to rebuild it each time?

I just build out a fuel tank and use KAS pipes to attach it to a plane, then refuel it.

[Snoman314]

Are the funds for simulations from the spaceplane hangar bugged?

I'm having trouble getting evidence of this, due to the fact that it happens when I'm doing 30 minute simulations of my spaceplanes, and I forget. Basically after 5 or so simulations of a spaceplane costing approk $70k, I noticed I'm about $300k - $400k short of funds compared to when I started. I've only noticed this while using the SPH. I typically use 'revert to editor' when testing designs to end the simulation.

Is it possible I'm on to something, or is it just me? It seems like the value of the spaceplane is lost during each simulation.

[magico13]

If you're using the hangar mod then there definitely is an issue related to that. Are you using procedural parts at all, because they might have an issue too now that I think of it.

You can either send me a log file after turning on debug messages in KCT's settings (that setting will be needed to diagnose this), or you can try using any of the debug versions past build 54, since it's probably related to a bug I've fixed in build 54.

Sorry for any inconvenience caused by it. You might want to cheat back in those funds.

1. if you have recovered parts in inventory you can have the cost of construction reduced by the value of that part

2. have a user configurable option for what percentage of the value of the part is actually credited (maybe you want 100% credit, maybe you only want 50% credit for part reuse)

3. have a user configurable option for recovery value of parts that are officially DESTROYED

I was working on something like this in the past, and expect to see it come up at some point in the future. I've only had it set up for all or nothing though, not with a configurable percentage, and destroyed parts are lost for good since there's not a way to get a list of parts that were destroyed on a flight (though you might be able to listen to an event that fires when a part is destroyed). I don't know yet if the all or nothing scheme is how it will be when it's released though.

[PetWolverine]

Small request: When simulations are set to be free, could the simulation dialog not ask how long a simulation should be, or at least default to unlimited?

[Snoman314]

If you're using the hangar mod then there definitely is an issue related to that. Are you using procedural parts at all, because they might have an issue too now that I think of it.

You can either send me a log file after turning on debug messages in KCT's settings (that setting will be needed to diagnose this), or you can try using any of the debug versions past build 54, since it's probably related to a bug I've fixed in build 54.

Sorry for any inconvenience caused by it. You might want to cheat back in those funds.

Ah OK. Yes I do have the hangar mod installed, but I've never actually used it. I might uninstall it in the meantime. I do also have the B9 procedural wings installed, and I have the procedural fairing as well. I've not noticed any problems with the fairings. I think I'll also uninstall the procedural wings, as they don't work that well yet.

Here's my log anyway. link

And yeah, I've had to cheat back a lot of funds. I first noticed the problem after I first noticed that the nearly 1 million I'd saved up was gone..

I'll check without those two mods and report back.

- - - Updated - - -

OK, no dice. I uninstalled the Hangar mod and the B9 Procedural Wings mod, and I'm still having the same problem. Here's my log from the last test:

second log

I hope it helps, there's a lot of stuff in that log when I turned debug messages. In this last one, I tried it twice.

Now I'm going to try and figure out how to get that debug version..

- - - Updated - - -

Hmm, still no change. I already uninstalled the Hangar mod, and this time I replaced KerbalConstructionTime.dll with the one from build #54, and I'm still getting the same behavior. Paying closer attention I see that I'm not losing the entire value of the ship, and I also notice that it's happening in the VAB as well as the SPH. (I wondered why I could never seem to save up a decent amount of funds).

Is it possible it's something to do with the strategy I'm using which decreases costs for new vessels? (at the expense of increasing the cost to unlock parts). I've kept the log for this as well if you want it.

[magico13]

The strategy could definitely be related. I haven't gotten a chance to take a look at the log yet, but I'll let you know if I see anything when I do later.

Edit: I should have been more specific about which log, sorry, but in the future can you send me the output_log.txt file from the KSP_Data folder? Additionally, it doesn't look like you had the Debug Messages setting enabled since I'm not seeing any of KCT's debug messages, meaning I don't know how many funds it's taking for simulations, but it's possible those just aren't showing up in the KSP.log. If you use any of the dev versions then they will automatically act as though that setting is enabled.

Edited January 26, 2015 by magico13

[Snoman314]

I looked a couple more times and never did figure out what I was supposed to do regarding the log file, but the problem has gone away since I stopped using strategies that modify vessel cost.

[magico13]

I looked a couple more times and never did figure out what I was supposed to do regarding the log file, but the problem has gone away since I stopped using strategies that modify vessel cost.

Ok, good to hear. I'll have to see if I can figure out a way around that issue.

Regarding the log, in the same folder as the GameData folder there should be a KSP_Data folder, inside that is the output_log.txt file. As for the KCT debug messages, in the KCT settings (Open the KCT GUI, press the Settings button, go to Global) there's a setting to turn on debug messages (Enable Debugging).

[OrtwinS]

Damn lazy kerbals.

Installing a new SCANsat senor array on a nearly finished Moho probe would cause me to miss my launch window.

PS, not a complaint, I love the mod.

PPS, it doesn't play nice with procedural fairings though. Editing a vessel with fairings costs a great deal of progress even without editing, probably because PF recalculates (and reapplies?) the fairings... (wich KCT picks up as a change)

Edited January 27, 2015 by OrtwinS
added pps

[mecki]

I think this plugin is missing a smart way to deal with crashes.

I'm constantly getting freezes and crashes and when that happens during a simulation the ship sits on the launchpad the next time I launch without a hint about a simulation happening.

When I crash / recover the game is then reset to the time before the simulation. It might be confusing later when there are several ships (also in orbit)…

[magico13]

We've got a better way of handling that issue in the simulation rewrite that's coming up in the future, but in the mean time if your game crashes during a simulation just load up the save and go into the Tracking Station, VAB, or SPH and everything will resync. In the future that should happen when you load the save.

As for the issue with procedural fairings, they should be calculating correctly during an edit, so I'll have to make sure that code is working correctly. It sounds like it's not :/

[JordanL]

Okay, so I've identified a mod compatibility bug, and I'm not sure if it's been reported, but I'm going to post it.

I have KCT and RF.

Basically, cryo fuels boil off DURING construction time, so for KEROLOX engine, I end up with full kerosene, and about 2/3 of my liquid oxygen. I'm not sure how this could be fixed, but I'm reporting this to KCT and RF.

[magico13]

Okay, so I've identified a mod compatibility bug, and I'm not sure if it's been reported, but I'm going to post it.

I have KCT and RF.

Basically, cryo fuels boil off DURING construction time, so for KEROLOX engine, I end up with full kerosene, and about 2/3 of my liquid oxygen. I'm not sure how this could be fixed, but I'm reporting this to KCT and RF.

Unfortunately it's a known issue that I've added code to fix, but it apparently only works half the time (worked fine for me in testing). Here's the github issue for it. The workaround is to make sure you have launch clamps that can top off your fuels (stock ones and some FASA ones)

I'm curious as to if it's specific to any tanks/fuels. It shouldn't be, but my testing with a procedural real fuels tank (non cryogenic) with liquid hydrogen worked correctly (several hour build had full tanks, but 2 hours on the pad and it was empty).

I'd love to be sent craft files and save files since I don't use Real Fuels myself and so can't test it very frequently.

[Wyseman76]

I absolutely love this mod, and it is a permanent fixture in my gameplay. I was wondering if it were possible to add the option to Hanger a runway landed aircraft instead of recovering it. What I mean is that right now the only option I have is to either exit the craft with my kerbal leaving the craft in the world so I can then use it immediately again later, or recovering it and it being built somewhat faster next time due to already having the parts in the part inventory. The beauty of this would be that the craft doesn't have to sit out on or around the runway and it adds another element of advantage to SSTO's and other aircraft use by them being stored verse rebuilt. Just a thought.

[magico13]

As mentioned on almost every page, I'm already working on that and it's requested very frequently. The primary issue with it is that in-flight vessels are very different from craft files and converting back to a craft file is fraught with bugs. I've got a WIP version of it than can be opened in the editor, but for some reason can't launch again, so I'm working on that issue (might not be being removed from the FlightState correctly). Needless to say, it'll be in the next release but might have some interesting bugs.

[JordanL]

Unfortunately it's a known issue that I've added code to fix, but it apparently only works half the time (worked fine for me in testing). Here's the github issue for it. The workaround is to make sure you have launch clamps that can top off your fuels (stock ones and some FASA ones)

I'm curious as to if it's specific to any tanks/fuels. It shouldn't be, but my testing with a procedural real fuels tank (non cryogenic) with liquid hydrogen worked correctly (several hour build had full tanks, but 2 hours on the pad and it was empty).

I'd love to be sent craft files and save files since I don't use Real Fuels myself and so can't test it very frequently.

Unfortunately I already deleted the craft, however the tanks in question were all FT-400's, and the engines were KW Wildcat V's. I didn't have the clamps because I hadn't unlocked them yet, but that's interesting that they top off the fuel. I didn't think of that.

I got around it by removing all the boil off values from the RF configs, so that there just ISN'T boil off... which isn't exactly how I'd like to play, but it was acceptable for now.

[magico13]

I won't get a chance to look at it tonight, but thank you for the specifics. I can test that particular scenario to see what's up, and if I can come up with a fix then I can test it against that scenario to make sure it works. Thanks!

[JordanL]

I won't get a chance to look at it tonight, but thank you for the specifics. I can test that particular scenario to see what's up, and if I can come up with a fix then I can test it against that scenario to make sure it works. Thanks!

The engine was a Tier 3, and it was using the Kerosene/Liquid Oxygen mix, (which is I believe about 36%Ker/64%LOX).

I also had many other mods installed, but I don't think there were any other interactions that could have affected this problem. However if you are unable to duplicate, I also had Regolith/CRP/Karbonite/K+ installed, as well as the RF Stockalike config set.

[Agathorn]

The engine was a Tier 3, and it was using the Kerosene/Liquid Oxygen mix, (which is I believe about 36%Ker/64%LOX).

I also had many other mods installed, but I don't think there were any other interactions that could have affected this problem. However if you are unable to duplicate, I also had Regolith/CRP/Karbonite/K+ installed, as well as the RF Stockalike config set.

I honestly still believe this is how it *should* work. After all, real rockets are fueled on the pad.

[JordanL]

I honestly still believe this is how it *should* work. After all, real rockets are fueled on the pad.

You must not understand what I was saying.

According to RF, the ship was fueled when construction began eight days before it reached the pad.

[magico13]

I honestly still believe this is how it *should* work. After all, real rockets are fueled on the pad.

But without launch clamps unlocked yet, it isn't practical to launch a vessel and have it only half full of fuel.

According to RF, the ship was fueled when construction began eight days before it reached the pad.

I agree that this isn't how it should work. It should be fully fueled when the "launch" button is clicked, and then once it's on the pad it's up to the launch clamps to keep it fuelled.

[Fizwalker]

Ok... I will bite. I run simulations where my launch goes without a hitch. On really launching the ship, strange and unanticipated things occur resulting in a failed launch. Is there a way of making the sims actually reflect real launches? Or disabling them?

Edited February 1, 2015 by Fizwalker

[seronis]

There is no difference between a simulation and a real launch. What the mod does is make a save file backup before running the simulation and reloads that backup when the simulation is complete.

[magico13]

Like seronis said, simulations are identical to real launches except that you can't quicksave or quickload. All KCT does is copy the save file, then overwrite the save file with the copy when your done. If something's working properly in sims, but not in real flights, then it's likely just confirmation bias since the situations are identical. I'm curious as to what kind of things are happening during the real launches that are causing failures but aren't happening during simulations.

[Fizwalker]

Like seronis said, simulations are identical to real launches except that you can't quicksave or quickload. All KCT does is copy the save file, then overwrite the save file with the copy when your done. If something's working properly in sims, but not in real flights, then it's likely just confirmation bias since the situations are identical. I'm curious as to what kind of things are happening during the real launches that are causing failures but aren't happening during simulations.

I think I won't be posting faults late at night after work anymore...

At anyrate, I was convinced that I had transferred my settings from sim to real launch. I screwed up the final turn angle... that with FAR caused it to tumble along its pitch axis. I retested this morning when I was more awake.