"War of the Worlds" discussions

[vger]

I had another thread I was going to post this in, where a bunch of folks were discussing WotW, but it was old and had a very unassuming title. So just putting this here instead, in case it ends up being one of those things that randomly gets a necro when something new comes out.

A mockumentary called "

," has occasionally been airing. Both the BBC and the History channel have been running it.

The premise is "What if World War I had been against Martians instead of Germans?" This means the time period is VERY close to the one that H.G. Wells intended, and is probably the most accurate in that regard. The designs for the Martians and their machines (the main vehicle anyhow) are pretty accurate as well. Still, a lot of creative liberties were taken to spruce up the tale more, but it's really neat to see Martian machines stomping around in classic war footage.

Edited September 8, 2014 by vger

[Capt.Joseph Kerbertson]

I had another thread I was going to post this in, where a bunch of folks were discussing WotW, but it was old and had a very unassuming title. So just putting this here instead, in case it ends up being one of those things that randomly gets a necro when something new comes out.

A mockumentary called "

," has occasionally been airing. Both the BBC and the History channel have been running it.

The premise is "What if World War I had been against Martians instead of Germans?" This means the time period is VERY close to the one that H.G. Wells intended, and is probably the most accurate in that regard. The designs for the Martians and their machines (the main vehicle anyhow) are pretty accurate as well. Still, a lot of creative liberties were taken to spruce up the tale more, but it's really neat to see Martian machines stomping around in classic war footage.

If true... we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[Seret]

Pretty much. If you read the book the humans were pretty ineffective against the Martians. Although one of the main reasons for this was their use of chemical weapons, which a WW1 force would be somewhat better able to defend against.

[vger]

I wouldn't suspect that an intentional germ warfare attack would have worked against the novel Martians. They themselves used pretty nasty chemical weapons, so I would think their cockpits were sealed tight just in case winds sent anything back at them. It's been a while, but I don't think they started getting sick until after they controlled Earth and voluntarily crawled outside.

Against the original H.G. Wells machines? Yeeeeah, I reckon we would've been pretty useless until WWII. Nobody had even heard of an armored vehicle when the book was written, much less one where most of the weak points are dozens of feet in the air. Artillery was useless, it wasn't designed to shred armor, and even if it was, the odds of hitting close enough to a leg to do anything would e horridly low. And good luck trying to hit an 'aerial' target moving that fast with an anti-infantry gun.

AAG's are the first practical weapon I can think of that might have had any effect.

[Kryten]

Artillery was useless, it wasn't designed to shred armor, and even if it was, the odds of hitting close enough to a leg to do anything would e horridly low.

The tripods were stated to be aluminium; a new wonder-material in Welles' time, but not very effective armour. It's not implied to be very thick either; they shrug off rifle fire, but when one got hit by a shell it was obliterated. Something like a maxim pom-pom would seem to have a reasonable chance of disabling one.

[Technical Ben]

I wouldn't suspect that an intentional germ warfare attack would have worked against the novel Martians. They themselves used pretty nasty chemical weapons, so I would think their cockpits were sealed tight just in case winds sent anything back at them. It's been a while, but I don't think they started getting sick until after they controlled Earth and voluntarily crawled outside.

Against the original H.G. Wells machines? Yeeeeah, I reckon we would've been pretty useless until WWII. Nobody had even heard of an armored vehicle when the book was written, much less one where most of the weak points are dozens of feet in the air. Artillery was useless, it wasn't designed to shred armor, and even if it was, the odds of hitting close enough to a leg to do anything would e horridly low. And good luck trying to hit an 'aerial' target moving that fast with an anti-infantry gun.

AAG's are the first practical weapon I can think of that might have had any effect.

A chemical filter only has to work on occasion (when in use), a biological one needs 100% efficiency.

In reality the biggest risk would come from someone putting a Martian on a leash, and using them as their own army!

[Seret]

I would think their cockpits were sealed tight just in case winds sent anything back at them. It's been a while, but I don't think they started getting sick until after they controlled Earth and voluntarily crawled outside.

They drained the blood of humans and injected it directly into their own veins. That's your vector right there.

Artillery was useless, it wasn't designed to shred armor, and even if it was, the odds of hitting close enough to a leg to do anything would e horridly low. And good luck trying to hit an 'aerial' target moving that fast with an anti-infantry gun.

AAG's are the first practical weapon I can think of that might have had any effect.

Artillery was somewhat effective in the book, direct hits on the cowl of a fighting machine would smoke them. They weren't heavily armoured. Once the Martians took a few casualties from guns in ambush positions they started blanketing anywhere guns might have been hiding with their chemical weapons. This pretty much neutralised the only weapon the humans had and caused horrendous civilian casualties, hastening "the rout of civilisation". The book is out of copyright and free on sites like Project Gutenberg. It's also pretty short and thought-provoking, I might read it again myself.

[Nikolai]

I know this is somewhat off-topic, but have any of you guys ever played Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds for Windows?

One can play as either the Martians or the Humans in a real-time strategic struggle for planetary dominance. It's phenomenally well-balanced. Modern computers are much better at handling the computational requirements of lots and lots of vehicles on the screen at once , but I haven't been able to get the music to play from the CD since WinXP.

The novel remains one of my all-time favorites. None of the Hollywood versions have ever really lived up to it. I'd love to see a computer-animated movie (with period-accurate stuff, obviously), though.

[Javster]

I know this is somewhat off-topic, but have any of you guys ever played Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds for Windows?

One can play as either the Martians or the Humans in a real-time strategic struggle for planetary dominance. It's phenomenally well-balanced. Modern computers are much better at handling the computational requirements of lots and lots of vehicles on the screen at once , but I haven't been able to get the music to play from the CD since WinXP.

The novel remains one of my all-time favorites. None of the Hollywood versions have ever really lived up to it. I'd love to see a computer-animated movie (with period-accurate stuff, obviously), though.

Sounds like fun!

[Kryten]

There actually was a film that was closely based on the book; the one thing that can't be said about it is 'fun'. It was mostly footage of people walking.

[vger]

They drained the blood of humans and injected it directly into their own veins. That's your vector right there.

That wasn't seen to happen until after the occupation though, right?

Artillery was somewhat effective in the book, direct hits on the cowl of a fighting machine would smoke them. They weren't heavily armoured. Once the Martians took a few casualties from guns in ambush positions they started blanketing anywhere guns might have been hiding with their chemical weapons. This pretty much neutralised the only weapon the humans had and caused horrendous civilian casualties, hastening "the rout of civilisation". The book is out of copyright and free on sites like Project Gutenberg. It's also pretty short and thought-provoking, I might read it again myself.

And, yeah, I really need to go through it again. My perception of the sequence of events has been greatly screwed up by all of the films completely leaving out "Book 2" and sticking a few events from there into what is essentially just Book 1. The scene involving hiding from the 'periscope' I'm pretty sure was during the occupation, and not the invasion as it is usually shown (as is the death of the Martians, obviously). I believe the occupation lasted for a least a year though, which in the case of a virus or bacteria having a field day in an organism with a compromised immune system is a considerably long time. Which is why I figured 'something' more was going on. It's not specified if anything was done with the human blood before they used it. But it's enough to assume they might have boiled, purified, etc. that as well. That's another technicality that may or may not have been covered, whether or not they were witnessed extracting human blood and then injecting it with the same needle.

I know this is somewhat off-topic, but have any of you guys ever played Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds for Windows?

RTS game, right? I knew about it but never tried it. That style of game tends to irk me, even when its done really well (and most aren't). And on a little side rant. Yeah, if I ever had the opportunity to see it, I'd certainly see that show live. But that pastel-colored "house fly" tripod design... it drives me absolutely flipping mad.

Edited September 10, 2014 by vger

[Seret]

That wasn't seen to happen until after the occupation though, right?

IIRC the narrator observes it happening while stuck in the collapsed house with the pastor. That wasn't the first cylinder, and IIRC it was after organised resistance collapsed but I don't think it was a long time. A few days maybe? The Martians brought some "packed lunches" with them, bodies of another humanoid species was found inside the cylinders after the Martians all died. Once they'd drained all those little fellows they would have been onto the humans to keep themselves fed.

I believe the occupation lasted for a least a year though

I think it was a lot less. This guy has pieced together a timeline that puts it somewhere around 3-4 weeks.

[Nikolai]

There actually was a film that was closely based on the book; the one thing that can't be said about it is 'fun'. It was mostly footage of people walking.

From Pendragon Studios, right? About three hours in length?

If that's the one you're talking about, I was excited when I heard about it, then less and less so as I learned about Pendragon Studios' reputation concerning their production values. I have a copy myself for completeness' sake, but I can't bring myself to watch the whole thing in one sitting.

An animated version has the potential to engage the imagination and allow period-accurate settings while keeping budgets low (by comparison). Besides which, I have a soft spot for animation.

[Nikolai]

It's not specified if anything was done with the human blood before they used it. But it's enough to assume they might have boiled, purified, etc. that as well. That's another technicality that may or may not have been covered, whether or not they were witnessed extracting human blood and then injecting it with the same needle.

Just to throw another monkey wrench into the discussion: Maybe not. Other works by Wells and his contemporary futurists predicted that mankind would eventually eradicate all disease and vermin. (See, for example, The Time Machine and the Eloi.) Since Mars was considered to be an older world than Earth (having cooled more quickly by dint of its smaller size and more remote location from the Sun), presumably life would have arisen sooner there. It's possible that the Martians reached the technological state of eradicating all pathogens before things started to fall apart from a lack of water.

If that's the case, maybe they just forgot that sterilizing needles and/or blood was a thing they needed to do. It's happened to humans. Rome found out that wandering through cities in ankle-deep human excrement presented a public health hazard and created all manner of sanitation systems to alleviate the problem -- then the Western world forgot for a few centuries, and had to re-discover sewers and such all over again.

RTS game, right? I knew about it but never tried it. That style of game tends to irk me, even when its done really well (and most aren't).

Agreed, for the most part. This game, however, was based on the Command and Conquer engine, so it managed to be reasonably good without having to re-invent much. And it used genuine 3D modeling (rather than rotating sprites), which was more demanding for computers to handle but allowed one to use the landscape itself as part of the strategy for conquering an area. If anything, I'd like to see this re-done with more modern computational capabilities in mind, because the intense computational requirements meant that some landscapes were a bit sparse and/or small.

And on a little side rant. Yeah, if I ever had the opportunity to see it, I'd certainly see that show live. But that pastel-colored "house fly" tripod design... it drives me absolutely flipping mad.

I'd see it in a heartbeat, too, even though I agree about Jeff Wayne's tripods -- it's hard for me to reconcile his tripod design with the book's description of a technology that used no wheels, anywhere. (Those joints at the top of the stilts look pretty wheel-y to me.) They also don't look like the sort of thing that would cause the sense of inscrutable dread I get out of the novel. All that said, though, there's an opening cinematic in the game where a tripod blasts an oncoming locomotive that I really happen to like.

[Kryten]

If that's the case, maybe they just forgot that sterilizing needles and/or blood was a thing they needed to do. It's happened to humans. Rome found out that wandering through cities in ankle-deep human excrement presented a public health hazard and created all manner of sanitation systems to alleviate the problem -- then the Western world forgot for a few centuries, and had to re-discover sewers and such all over again.

This is extremely heavily implied in the book. To make a direct quote;

n all the bodies of the Martians that were examined after the war, no bacteria except those already known as terrestrial species were found. That they did not bury their dead, and the reckless slaughter they perpetrated, point also to an entire ignorance of the putrefactive proicess.