Anyone else not really care for the career stuff?

[tater]

What needs to happen is that "science" should be disassembled into a few parts. Abstracted science that helps improve rocketry, abstracted science that helps improve habitation (medical), abstract planetary science (for SCIENCE!), and actual science that gives the player useful data to play… the latter is like ScanSat, but even more, and integration. The point of this "useful" science is that you NEED the data to make a reasonable mission.

You have NO data on atmospheres except what you learn with probes (perhaps you can make a space telescope and gets some data from doing that, as well). You cannot see worlds in detail unless you are actually there (in map mode). This might require the game to randomize planets somewhat with each career (with a seed so people can share, and there can be a default seed that is normal, players have to choose randomized as a diff setting). This would force a sort of progression in career play, though you could bring all the gear and scan, then land if you like as well. Surface collection might actually matter… they actually worried in RL about lunar dust, for example. Maybe deep dust pools is a thing in KSP. Or an ice surface that is just a crust (bye, bye, probe). You'd need to scan from orbit, make a map, then land… with a probe if you are worried it might sink, etc.

Real, pragmatic science.

Pure science is "just because" or raises reputation.

Medical helps unlock habitat and life support tech (they'd need to add life support as a difficulty option).

Spaceflight science would be critical to unlocking new tech.

Note also that the game could have "experimental," "production," and "improved" versions of many pieces of equipment. They'd be identical in looks, as you unlock each, the stats improve. Targeted contracts---that are like "explore the Mun" and have multiple parts---are require to progress them. Static testing (you can "run test" right before a real launch), in-flight testing, orbital testing… for lander stuff actual flights/landings, etc.

All this would add flavor, and a story arc.

Edited October 10, 2014 by tater

[FacialJack]

Hi all

For me too, carrer mode is a fun thing, but casual one.

Science would be the Goal (even the Ultimate One !).

In fact, if humanity can't rise to space level, she will surely die, or be forced to "pericliter" staying at same level forever

Anyway, the budget limit my creativity, and i dont want to be a manager, but a director, the one who say "We have to go to Duna ! let do it mens !"

and build a ship limited by my skill in design and not by money.

Maybe squad is now too close of NASA, and KSP tend to be a NASA simulator, instead of a "Can that thing fly, and How Far Jeb will go wiz" simulator.

Well, only one question to harvester:

When u launched ur figs in air wiz firecracker as young boy, did the price of the firecracker the goal, or how high go the kerbal ?

Edit: sry, ENG is not my primary languages, not even the second (as its Deutsch), so sry for mistakes

Edit edit: totally agree wiz u Tater, i dream of that approche, like if we begin just after Galilée IRL, and have to discover all data, Knowledge conquer!!

Edited October 10, 2014 by FacialJack

[Red Iron Crown]

Hi all

For me too, carrer mode is a fun thing, but casual one.

Science would be the Goal (even the Ultimate One !).

In fact, if humanity can't rise to space level, she will surely die, or be forced to "pericliter" staying at same level forever

Anyway, the budget limit my creativity, and i dont want to be a manager, but a director, the one who say "We have to go to Duna ! let do it mens !"

and build a ship limited by my skill in design and not by money.

Maybe squad is now too close of NASA, and KSP tend to be a NASA simulator, instead of a "Can that thing fly, and How Far Jeb will go wiz" simulator.

Well, only one question to harvester:

When u launched ur figs in air wiz firecracker as young boy, did the price of the firecracker the goal, or how high go the kerbal ?

Edit: sry, ENG is not my primary languages, not even the second (as its Deutsch), so sry for mistakes

You are literally the first person I've heard complain that KSP is becoming too much of a simulator.

You can always come join us in the sandbox mode if you don't like financial constraints.

[Caelib]

I am really only interested in the science and only do the scripted contracts for "achievements", such as "Explore the Mun", etc. I think Career mode as a whole is very good, but the latest additions of levers/knobs/sliders via the Administration Building will probably not be used by a large portion of players (at least in its current form).

[Franklin]

I am really only interested in the science and only do the scripted contracts for "achievements", such as "Explore the Mun", etc. I think Career mode as a whole is very good, but the latest additions of levers/knobs/sliders via the Administration Building will probably not be used by a large portion of players (at least in its current form).

It'll be used by most I would think, but only as a way of ramping up completing the tech tree as quickly as possible, then it'll go primarily unused since Funds is typically plentiful and rep never goes down. Quickload & Revert take a lot of the pain away.

[tater]

Realistically, Franklin is correct. The reality of game design is that players will play to the reward system. Yes, some people have their own style of play, but the bulk of players will "game" whatever system is there, even if unintentionally (the game will reward behavior X, so they will do that---just like people build ridiculous, pancake rockets because there is no reason not to).

That is why "career" game design matters, and in many ways is far harder than the physics of play.

What is the goal?

[haltux]

It seems a lot of people agree that Career mode isn't so much fun (Atleast in the long term) I wonder if they will consider re-thinking on how they want to implement "Career" mode. Make it fun for all of us. I wish I could like career mode... I even forced my self a couple of times to play it but always turned it down after 10-30 minutes. I know this game isn't anywhere near "Finished" but career mode is already going a bad direction, unless they completely revamp the Mission system/"Contracts".. Atleast. I would suggest them to focus on the core gameplay mechanics and features.

I am curious, why do you think the game is no "anywhere near finished"?

My feeling, I hope I am wrong, is that the game is almost finished. The engine is not progressing anymore (I have lost hope in the integration of FAR or DR), and now they entirely focus on the career until they consider it as finished, and then they will release the final version.

I am not sure what is the most sad: that they focus on the career which should not be the point, or that the career by itself is so disappointing, with this contracts that no one can possibly find interesting.

Anyway, I don't believe any second that they still can make major orientation changes (and as far as I know they never did).

[Caelib]

It'll be used by most I would think, but only as a way of ramping up completing the tech tree as quickly as possible, then it'll go primarily unused since Funds is typically plentiful and rep never goes down. Quickload & Revert take a lot of the pain away.

If that is actually the case, then I don't understand why people are even playing Career Mode to begin with If they are trying to circumvent the process, the solution is simple: Sandbox!

[Wooks]

Wanna know how to get into career mode? A CHALLENGE!

Challenge: Start a fresh career mode in hard difficulty and try to unlock all the parts under 20 missions.

[Tail_TL]

I am curious, why do you think the game is no "anywhere near finished"?

My feeling, I hope I am wrong, is that the game is almost finished. The engine is not progressing anymore (I have lost hope in the integration of FAR or DR), and now they entirely focus on the career until they consider it as finished, and then they will release the final version.

I am not sure what is the most sad: that they focus on the career which should not be the point, or that the career by itself is so disappointing, with this contracts that no one can possibly find interesting.

Anyway, I don't believe any second that they still can make major orientation changes (and as far as I know they never did).

I said that its "Anywhere near finished" just for their defense so I wouldn't be a total jerk, but to be honest I really lost faith in them... The game isn't getting any better with these updates (Well for the most part), and I'm afraid to imagine what the game will be like in 1.0... They should really pull it together and re-think their future plans for the game...

[Kar]

Use kOS if you want to run on that excuse. Otherwise it doesn't work. kOS is the mod that's closest to what real "autopilot" in rockets looks like.

Good.... good.

kOS definitely deserves more attention than it gets. Everyone only mumble about MechJeb over and over again as if it'd be some magical solution to make KSP more realistic, or whatever excuse they feel like using for today.

Which, by the way, is funny in it's own way - that people feel like they need to apologise each time they run game with MechJeb.

Dam! Those dam words. I DO NOT PLAY WITH KOS lol.

My mistake. I meant, I play with KAS and MKS among others that add more things to do in the game. Like Science mods (station science), magic smoke industries (love this one) and the amazing KAS.

I tried using KOS cause I did not know how to hack mechjeb, but i cannot understand it, maybe it is more easier then im aware, but cannot see it!

Sorry to disappoint you Sky_walker

I found out that comment of you funny

people feel like they need to apologise each time they run game with MechJeb

lol. I do not need the feel to apologize by using it, and to be honest I do not give a F**** what people think about using it. I use it because i got tired of turning my ship to the AP, wait for the countdown, warping and screw it because i passed the countdown time for the burn, crashing on the mun (sometimes i do manually but it's a heck of work with so low information using the game hud.

Im flying a space ship ffs! Even my car has GPS!

[Kar]

What is the goal?

Personal achievement by playing something that is hard at the start and "fighting" to be more efficient in everything you do. At least for me.

That reminds me of something, when in career the science ends, the recent new contract system and now with 0.25 administration, things got more interesting. I believe that besides the main goal of the game, building rockets, planes, go to other planets, this is a "Space Program" simulator, it just has Kerbals, but it could have Klingons, Andorians, or green men from Mars. The strategic (or lack of it for now) way of running a "real" space program is in my opinion a big part of the game that we lose if we do not play career.

Sure, sandbox with all parts unlock to try crazy stuff and test stuff is great, but when you complete all the science in career (im talking about career with money and rep, not the "old career science") there's where amazing mods get into play. Building colonies in other planets, orbital stations, mining, using a network of satellites to have constant communication with your ships and probes, all of this and more can add even more challenges to the career mode.

I give great value to the modders that provide this sort of thigs. For example playing a full career mode game from the start with TAC life support, is way cool, more realistic, we have about 90% of true physics in the game (not counting bugs or weird stuff) for me, the more realistic the game gets the better it gets near of is intended game play.

Many modders understand this, providing us more stuff to do and making the game a bit more harder. Talking about the game be more harder, now imagining running realistic mods like life support and so on, with the new options in the difficulty level in 0.25. I'm going to start a new career soon, I am still playing 0.24.2 because it's already advanced, just waiting for all the mods i use to be updated to .25.

Fly safe.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Kar

[alacrity]

The .25 update I think really pushed forward the career mode. Being able to set a starting science level, adjusting certain game mechanics (ie allow revert, etc), and the administrator strategies has helped give a touch of nuance.

For example I start with about 150 science (to approximate 1965 NASA) and use the kerbucks to science strategy at 10%. Means my science will ramp faster then my funds. With RemoteTech, FAR, and TAC life for my hardmode mods, I get a pretty complex game play. Always ahead in science and behind in funds, trying to figure out how to add my RT comma satalites using contract mission launches.

I admit some of the missions are odd (test this at that apt going so fast) but I usually build planes for those. FAR does try to crash them but I manage to keep the costs down.

[Frannington]

I'm a little bit sad that there's even factions of "career" versus "sandbox" and animosity between the two.

This game allows you to play how you want. You can build a career... or you can loft whatever you like and explore the art of the possible. There is absolutely no reason why the two can't coexist and no one has a right to contradict that.

This is a game. And it's great because you can have fun in the way you want to. Any snobbery or elitism has no place, and I won't bother with posts from people who act like their interpretation of the game is the only valid one.

[tater]

I'm a little bit sad that there's even factions of "career" versus "sandbox" and animosity between the two.

This game allows you to play how you want. You can build a career... or you can loft whatever you like and explore the art of the possible. There is absolutely no reason why the two can't coexist and no one has a right to contradict that.

This is a game. And it's great because you can have fun in the way you want to. Any snobbery or elitism has no place, and I won't bother with posts from people who act like their interpretation of the game is the only valid one.

I don't see animosity at all. Why would there be when both modes (plus science mode) are available?

The issue is that the "career" mode evolves quickly into "sandbox." The idea that you can set up a career, then adjust your game as you go simply by choices, instead of the career sort of driving things is not fundamentally different from playing sandbox, and merely self-limiting. I think some of us want more from career mode.

Take the contracts as they are. Each should have a time threshold that is realistic. Right now the penalties for failure never, ever happen, because the game won't check for failure until 10 years have passed. Is contract failure even possible?

[Tw1]

Challenge: Start a fresh career mode in hard difficulty and try to unlock all the parts under 20 missions.

That would be an interesting thing to do, but once it's donel the game still wouldn't feel like you're managing a space program. It would again, be sanbbox with budget

I am curious, why do you think the game is no "anywhere near finished"?

I am hoping career gets fleshed out a lot more, and that tech tree and contracts aren't the whole picture. As I posted earlier, managment would make it feel like a career of running a space program, not sandbox with some obstacles.

[Tail_TL]

Twitter: ".@maxmaps confirms an 0.26 contracts overhaul to be one of the subjects talked about in an article on Tuesday: http://bit.ly/1knMaSg " There's hope!

[Frank_G]

Well, i started playing KSP with version .20. I never cared about career back then. I only was annoyed by not getting science messages. Now that this is changed i should be lucky playing sandbox all the time, but to be honest... career mode is far better than playing sandbox since version .24.2. It adds so much juice to the gameplay, i couldnt imagine playing without anymore. Sandbox has become my simulation playground. Nothing more.

[Shuttle]

Twitter: ".@maxmaps confirms an 0.26 contracts overhaul to be one of the subjects talked about in an article on Tuesday: http://bit.ly/1knMaSg" There's hope!

Oh my God, I hope they are not going to simplify them!

[Tail_TL]

Oh my God, I hope they are not going to simplify them!

To be honest. Even if they do simplify them, they are still going to be better then what we currently got at the moment.

[The Jedi Master]

Oh my God, I hope they are not going to simplify them!

Hey, have a little faith. I actually think Squad knows what it's doing.

[Tail_TL]

Hey, have a little faith. I actually think Squad knows what it's doing.

I thought so the same, before 0.24.

[The Jedi Master]

I thought so the same, before 0.24.

OK. Let's try this again.

Look, I'm not a fanboy by any means. Squad sometimes makes mistakes, just like anybody. I don't like how they have been handling the backlash some of their decisions have caused, for instance, and I don't like how mods that aren't on Curse are basically barred from Modding Mondays. However, that doesn't make me lose hope and become all cynical and 'Squad can never do anything right'.

I don't believe in saying people are overreacting. It's insulting, and it acts like that person's feelings aren't real. I understand your resentment, and I think it's valid. I am not saying you are overreacting. What I am saying is that you shouldn't give up hope. For all the mistakes Squad has made, KSP is still a great game, and it's only getting better.

So, yes, you have every right to be angry. But sitting around complaining and being angry gets us nowhere. Squad listens to its community, so if you don't like the way things are going, tell them what you think!

[papics]

I play sandbox only, because I want to challenge myself, and I am very good at it Also, by playing with mods like Remote Tech, FAR/NEAR, ISP rescaler, Deadly reentry, etc., I think I am making it difficult enough. But I see how nice career mode can be for others, there is no problem with this, everyone is free to enjoy the game as he/she likes.

[Tail_TL]

OK. Let's try this again.

Look, I'm not a fanboy by any means. Squad sometimes makes mistakes, just like anybody. I don't like how they have been handling the backlash some of their decisions have caused, for instance, and I don't like how mods that aren't on Curse are basically barred from Modding Mondays. However, that doesn't make me lose hope and become all cynical and 'Squad can never do anything right'.

I don't believe in saying people are overreacting. It's insulting, and it acts like that person's feelings aren't real. I understand your resentment, and I think it's valid. I am not saying you are overreacting. What I am saying is that you shouldn't give up hope. For all the mistakes Squad has made, KSP is still a great game, and it's only getting better.

So, yes, you have every right to be angry. But sitting around complaining and being angry gets us nowhere. Squad listens to its community, so if you don't like the way things are going, tell them what you think!

Only reason why I'm "Hating" on the devs is because I care about this game, very much actually, and I'm worried that its going in that direction that didn't made me start playing the game in the first place.

I figured out what could "Possibly" make me feel less to non at all hate for the career mode, which is for them to make some sort of a way to "generate" income, (Just having a stable way of getting funds constantly) Probably by setting up a very expensive resource gathering base of operation. Which generate constant flow of income so you wouldn't be dependent or "Forced" to do contracts to get funds. also lessen the funds you earn from everything, and also revamp the contracts in general. If that would happen I would most likely "Shut my self up"... But ofcourse I'm asking for too much too fast, I just can't stand the current state of the career mode, not even for a second... I'll shut up now.