Edit Ore Deposit To Spacecenter

[Ryds]

Hey,

I've just started using mods such as Extraplanetary Launchpads, FAR, Kethane etc. I'd read that there was an ore deposit at the Kerbin spacecenter however when I scanned for it nothing was returned. I'm guessing that the distribution is random for each game.

What I'd like to do is to edit "something" in order to make the hex around the SC contain ore but I don't want to install something like hyper edit as perhaps the temptation to use that for other things would be too great. All i'd like to do is have the particular hex have ore so that I can learn about mining and rocket part construction before I send up massive great ships to other planets.

I'd greatly appreciate someone letting me know what to do. (Just thought, if the hex can contain both ore and kethane that would be best so I can do a complete run of construction).

Thanks!

[cantab]

IIRC kethane uses a random number generator with a seed that's in the savefile. Change the seed and you change the distribution of deposits. You'd have to use trial and error until you get one that puts a deposit at KSC.

[Geschosskopf]

There are 2 different systems of resources used by mods: Kethane's and OpenResources (which includes Interstellar and Karbonite). The major differences between the 2 systems is resource distribution. Kethane's system has discrete deposits of various resources randomly distributed around planets. This distribution changes on every planet in every new game. Either a location is part of a deposit and has the resource, or it isn't has zero. Plus, you can consume all the resources in a deposit in a relatively short time. OpenRecources, OTOH, usually has at least a trace amount of most resources everywhere on a planet, although there will be local concentrations or "hot spots" scattered about, and these are NOT random but hand-fitted to go logically with the planet's terrain, so are in the same places every game. Plus, you can't use up the resources.

Of these, I MUCH prefer the OpenResources system for a number of reasons. 1) I can usually test things at KSC; 2) it makes base location selection MUCH easier; 3) industrial consumption of resources can continue more than 1 or 2 iterations; and 4) scanning for OpenResources uses SCANsat, which is way better than the Kethane scanner.

#2 is a real biggie. Consider Laythe which is mostly ocean with only a handful of small islands. The way the Kethane system works, you're guaranteed to have 90-100% of your resources in the water and the mod provides no way at all to extract them, and the rest will likely be very inconveniently located and quickly consumed. Thus, it's often impossible to do anything on Laythe with the Kethane system, and when it is possible, it's a huge hassle and won't last very long anyway, so is hardly worth the trouble. Which is a totally buzzkill. It was this more than anything else that made me switch from Kethane to Karbonite. I made numerous attempts to colonize Laythe with Kethane and its resource system pretty much scuppered them all. But because Karbonite is OpenResources, you can find everything you need, in inexhaustible quantities, on conveniently located islands. PLUS this mod also allows resource extraction from the oceans. YAY!

Extraplanetary Launchpads in its default form is set up to use the Kethane resource system. HOWEVER, on the 1st page is a link to a 3rd-party conversion that switches EL to use Karbonite, and RoverDude, maker of Karbonite, is working on making this part of his own mods. I have tested this in its current state (not yet updated to 0.25 when I checked) and it worked fine. So, I consider this a very viable option. At the very least, it will give you at least a trace amount of ore at KSC right off the bat so you build a base rover and drill right through the runway to get it.

[cantab]

If you aren't averse to further mod use, last I checked TAC Fuel Balancer lets you fill kethane tanks when you're on the launchpad/runway. Might work for ore as well. Of course that won't help you test mining rigs but you can do the construction part.

[Ryds]

Ah, thanks for all the info! Bummer about Laythe and Kethane. Wish I'd known that before I started this save. I found it a real grind in Kerbin's soi to get the advanced tech so I'll stick with with what I've got now but in my next save I'll try open resources. Hopefully when I get to Laythe there'll be something to work with.

I bit the bullet and sent up an ugly great miner and metal processor (took about 50 attempts to it into orbit - thanks FAR!) and it's working fine now. I'll use the resources on Minmus to build something smaller.

[Geschosskopf]

Ah, thanks for all the info! Bummer about Laythe and Kethane. Wish I'd known that before I started this save. I found it a real grind in Kerbin's soi to get the advanced tech so I'll stick with with what I've got now but in my next save I'll try open resources. Hopefully when I get to Laythe there'll be something to work with

It's totally possible to change resource systems in the middle of a game, and even to use both Kethane and Karbonite simultaneously.

Laythe is a total crapshoot with Kethane. Here are some examples from various games of mine.

This was the 1st time I tried it and it was by far the best distribution I ever got. Note the deposit on the big island nearly on the equator at the left edge, plus a few others on relatively large, conveniently located islands. Problem was, none of those convenient deposits was very big, so they didn't last long. With Kethane, the big deposits tend to be at higher latitudes than you might like.

The above is much more typical of a Laythe Kethane. Nearly everything is uselessly underwater and where there is Kethane on land, it's only on very tiny amounts of land. Either it's on minscule sandbar shoals or extremely small slivers of big islands, VERY difficult to drop landers on. And where there is a large patch of Kethane on land, it's almost always in moutainous areas with sheer cliffs instead of beaches. Plus, next to nothing is on or near the equator, and the majority of land deposits will be too small for extended use anyway.

It's pretty much the same everywhere, actually. Laythe is just the extreme example but you have the same general problems of inconvenient locations and limited amounts everywhere, even places like Duna with no oceans. And then there's the excruciatingly boring, time-consuming chore of scanning for Kethane in the 1st place, due to its hex grid system. Ugh! I eventually reached the point where I only scanned between +/- 30^ latitude to minimize the time required, on the theory I'd never use any Kethane further off the equator than that anyway.

In general, Kethane isn't suited to large-scale, long-term use by permanent bases and colonies. It's best thought of as a way for small, short-term exploration ships to refuel themselves a few times and never come back. If you want to build permanent, self-sufficient bases, and consume resources on an industrial scale, Karbonite is far and away superior in all respects. Except that Eeloo doesn't have a drop of it, it's got Karborundum instead.

[cantab]

On kethane scanning, it does indeed take a bit of waiting if you want to do a thorough scan. But you don't need to do that. All you need to do is find a suitably located deposit, and on anywhere not named Laythe that's pretty quick.

Personally I find the finiteness of kethane part of the appeal. Be profligate with your fuel and you're going to use up the easy stuff and have to move on to more difficult-to-exploit deposits, just as humanity has done with Earth's natural resources. Be mindful of efficiency from the start, even when the kethane seems abundant, and it will help you out in the long run.

Edited November 3, 2014 by cantab