Good colony locations?

[somewhatcasual]

Hello all,

I've decided to play ksp differently then I have in the past. Instead of the fun mechanic of constantly updating mods and never playing I've decided to start self sufficent colonies. I will be using many mods but the main ones will be mks, tacls, and kspi/lite.

I'm looking for cool/ideal/good/rationale locations for bases or colonies throughout the system. If you, an intrepid and experienced explorer, can provide specific locations on a celestial body that would be even better. The locations could just look cool or perhaps they provide a great logistical rationale for the spot. I'm open to all suggestions.

I think I'll set up a practice site somewhere on kerbin first before venturing out of kerbin's soi. I'm not very interested in the mun/minmus. Atmospheric bodies are more interesting but like I said open to suggestions.

Thanks a bunch for your input.

[Pinsir99]

A floating colony on Laythe's ocean would be an interesting build. Gotta find a way to make every module you deploy float

[Arlax]

A floating colony on Laythe's ocean would be an interesting build. Gotta find a way to make every module you deploy float

I found a mod from Roverdude yesterday that, for what I've read (I haven't actually tried it out), let's you float things on water, so that'd probably would make your idea work.

[cantab]

Eve. Because you ain't coming back in a hurry so you better make it a colony!

[KerikBalm]

Minmus-> to top off outgoing missions (I don't use any resource extraction mods, just reusable spaceplanes and nuclear tugs, for interplanetary missions, I now always use a tug to boost the apoapsis of my payloads past minmus, then aerobrake the tug back to LKO for refueling by SSTO/a fuel depot)

Duna- atmosphere's save delta V, especially with the thermal turbojets of KSPI. I like to have a base at the "mouth" of a canyon (thicker atmosphere, interesting location, plausible site for research, etc)

Laythe - of course, I choose an island with a near equatorial bay. I also aerobrake at laythe, not Jool (this may not work so well with DRE, I'm not sure) - it takes less dV to get to/capture into orbit of other Jool moon.

Dres- booo inclined plane is a pain, not very interesting. It might be fun to make a base at the bottom of that canyon on Dres.

Eve- Maybe with KSPI and NEAR/FAR its doable - but I don't want any base where i can't SSTO from it (I also don't recommend Tylo, but it is perfectly possible to land and return to orbit in one stage, and if you can refuel after landing at your colony, then I guess its fine, higher difficulty)

but..... Gilly!

Eve aerocaptures ease the dV requirements to get to Gilly, landing is super easy (although boring), if you can do some resource extraction, it will make a good staging point for a run to Moho

Moho- takes quite a bit of dV to get here, on the other hand, transfer windows are very frequent. With the increased dV capabilities of ships in KSPI, why not?

Eeloo- because you need a deep space outpost. Name it #9 for some reason.

[FlyingPete]

Brotoro showed us that laythe is great to set up a permanent base on for colonization/exploration of the other moons in the system. Reasonable atmosphere oxygen for jet engines, low gravity, all that's missing is a bit more land.

I like Minmus as it's easy enough to get to, but also lower gravity than Mun which makes base construction easier. It looks like an interesting place for research too. Rovers don't work too well as they struggle for grip, but equip them with a rocket engine and they can hop from place to place.

I think Eve is best explored as a colonization effort- the thick atmosphere makes it far easier and cheaper to send supplies than to send an ascent vehicle. Combine it with an orbital station and you can explore Gilly too- send crew rotations along with the resupply ships. Drop the supplies from orbit and bring the old station crew home on the same ship.

[Geschosskopf]

I've decided to play ksp differently then I have in the past. Instead of the fun mechanic of constantly updating mods and never playing I've decided to start self sufficent colonies. I will be using many mods but the main ones will be mks, tacls, and kspi/lite.

I'm looking for cool/ideal/good/rationale locations for bases or colonies throughout the system. If you, an intrepid and experienced explorer, can provide specific locations on a celestial body that would be even better. The locations could just look cool or perhaps they provide a great logistical rationale for the spot. I'm open to all suggestions.

I think I'll set up a practice site somewhere on kerbin first before venturing out of kerbin's soi. I'm not very interested in the mun/minmus. Atmospheric bodies are more interesting but like I said open to suggestions.

Thanks a bunch for your input.

Well, my 1st input would be to not use MKS. As much as I love all that RoverDude has done for the community, I've been using MKS from the get-go and have seen it deteriorate from a "highly abstract" system that actually did what it claimed to do, into a highly complex, undocumented nightmare requiring way more micromanagement to make work than its supposed benefits are worth. If it even still actually works for anything other than a tiny outpost, which I've come strongly to doubt. Plus, RoverDude gins out a game-breaking update every few weeks anyway. So, bottom line with MKS is, don't get into MKS (at least for the present) unless all you want to do in the game is be an MKS tester. If you instead actually want to play the game, then don't do MKS until it settles down into something that actually works without inordinate hassle. Which, given the ongoing trend, I don't think is going to happen anytime soon, if ever. If you want to do life support, it's WAY WAY easier just to send out periodic supply ships than it is to make MKS work.

That said, on to your real question of base locations. Unless you're role-playing a science outpost or something, then exploiting resources iis the only reason to bother with a base. So, it all depends on what resources you want to exploit and why. Then you just position the base on a flat area conveniently located near the desired resource. If you're interested in fuel, then there's no point in building a base on Mun or Minmus because you can just launch from Kerbin. Fuel bases are only worth the trouble when they provide a significant savings over trucking out fuel from Kerbin, which means at other planets. And fuel stations positioned to avoid as much gravity and atmospheres as possible along the supply route usuall beat those on the ground, at least if the fuel is going to be used in space, unless there's no other choice (Moho, Dres, Eeloo). If you're going to use the fuel on the ground, then you need a ground fuel base as well.

So:

Eve: you'll need a fuel extraction base on Gilly and a fuel station in LEO. Bases on Eve's surface as necessary to support operations there.

Duna: fuel base on Ike, fuel station in LDO, bases on Duna as needed.

Jool: fuel base on Vall, fuel stations at Laythe and elsewhere as needed, bases on the moons as needed.

In all cases, the exact base location will be determined by where the resources are and where the nearest flat ground to them are.

[numerobis]

http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/File:Laythe_Topo_compressed.png

My favourite spot on Laythe is the equatorial island on the left side of the image. It has some high hills, broad slopes, and three little lakes. This makes a reasonable place to think you could colonize: farm fish in the lakes (if there aren't already some), farm crops on the slopes; storms shouldn't wipe you out since you're far from the seas, and the tall hills will shield you from the worst. The shores of the lakes, particularly the point between the three lakes, make great airstrips.

[somewhatcasual]

Wow. Great input guys. Lots to consider now when I send my kerbals to their doom.

[numerobis]

If doom is your goal, other landing spots on Laythe are far more dangerous: steep drop-offs, and missing the beach means ending up in the drink.

[Pinsir99]

http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/File:Laythe_Topo_compressed.png

My favourite spot on Laythe is the equatorial island on the left side of the image. It has some high hills, broad slopes, and three little lakes. This makes a reasonable place to think you could colonize: farm fish in the lakes (if there aren't already some), farm crops on the slopes; storms shouldn't wipe you out since you're far from the seas, and the tall hills will shield you from the worst. The shores of the lakes, particularly the point between the three lakes, make great airstrips.

That would imply that some type of fish with the ability to live in an ocean with a extremely high salinity would have to be introduced to the planet. Oh this makes me want to find some sort of terraforming mod where you make the various planets in the kerbol system into habitable oasis's.

[Jouni]

Laythe - of course, I choose an island with a near equatorial bay. I also aerobrake at laythe, not Jool (this may not work so well with DRE, I'm not sure) - it takes less dV to get to/capture into orbit of other Jool moon.

Laythe aerobraking is quite safe with DRE. If you do it right, the speed should be less than when returning from the Mun.

When I was building a Laythe colony, the site was on a ridge between a big crater lake and the ocean on an equatorial island. There was a quite big mostly level area, making landings easy and safe.

[Geschosskopf]

My favourite spot on Laythe is the equatorial island on the left side of the image. It has some high hills, broad slopes, and three little lakes. This makes a reasonable place to think you could colonize: farm fish in the lakes (if there aren't already some), farm crops on the slopes; storms shouldn't wipe you out since you're far from the seas, and the tall hills will shield you from the worst. The shores of the lakes, particularly the point between the three lakes, make great airstrips.

One thing about Laythe to consider is the threat of tsunamis. Laythe has one of (if not THE) biggest craters relative to its diameter of any planet in the game. Most of the islands are the rim of this huge crater, and all islands have scads of smaller craters. Which is not surprising due to Laythe being right next door to asteroid/comet-magnet Jool. So while such things don't really happen in the game, it's something to take into account if you're role-playing.

Problem is, the high ground isn't particularly amenable to airstrips, due both to lack of flatness and the relatively high altitude in the thinnish air there. So what I tend to do is have airbases (plane refueling stations) down low, either on smooth level ground or next to the beach where seaplanes can operate, with the main living areas up in the mountains. And I usually have a design requirement that everything important that I land on Laythe has the ability to get itself back into orbit to sit out a tsunami, then land itself again once the waves have calmed down.

[cantab]

Would not the more Kerbal solution be to station a massive asteroid tug in the Joolian system, at the ready to intercept any threatening space rocks.

[Geschosskopf]

Would not the more Kerbal solution be to station a massive asteroid tug in the Joolian system, at the ready to intercept any threatening space rocks.

Given the number of craters on Laythe and its proximity to the rocks' Pe, I figure there'd be too many coming too fast to catch them all .

[KerikBalm]

I figured many of the small craters were volcanic in nature, like Jupiter's moon Io.

It must have internal heating to stay liquid

There is that huge atol, but I assume that was a 1 off event that happened during the formation of the moons of Jool.

Laythe aerobraking can be easy.... but I time my launch based on the jool transfer window, and then tweak it to interept laythe, where- ever it may be, and sometimes that results in encountering laythe while I'm travelling retrograde to jool, which means I end up with a relative velocity = to the velocity 'd need to aerobrake at Jool + 2x the orbital velocity of laythe.

[cantab]

It does take a bit of finesse to arrive directly at Laythe (or any other Joolian moon). The approach I suggest is to make a midcourse correction with prograde/retrograde and radial components. This lets you adjust your Jool arrival time and periapsis separately, which you need to ensure a Laythe encounter in a good position. Gentlest aerobrake would be a Jool pass about tangent to Laythe's orbit and encountering Laythe on the prograde side.

Incidentally, from a fuel perspective Laythe is one of the cheaper places to get back to Kerbin from. If you use jets you'll need very little fuel to make orbit, and it then takes around 1100 m/s of delta-V to get from low Laythe orbit to Kerbin.

[Geschosskopf]

I figured many of the small craters were volcanic in nature, like Jupiter's moon Io. It must have internal heating to stay liquid

Certainly you'd think tidal heating would dictate Laythe being a volcanic Hell like Io instead of a beach resort. But given Laythe is actually a beach resort and none of the craters have evidence of lava flows, I figure the craters must be impacts and the lack of vulcanism is explained by Laythe being made of the same family of exotic, ultra-dense matter as Kerbin. Thus, it doesn't move much if at all due to tidal stresses .

Laythe aerobraking can be easy.....

Laythe aerobraking is very, very sensitive to Pe altitude, much moreso than any other planet. Even if you've already slowed down somewhat by aerobraking at Jool first, the altitude difference between being too low and lithobraking, and being too high and not capturing at all, is only about 2km. This means that getting the desired orbital Ap directly from aerocapture at Laythe isn't very likely--if you get your Pe between the limits, usually you'll end up in a rather elliptical orbit with an Ap higher than desired. You can either fix that later or do some burning during the pass to control you Ap.

Or, you can see what the Trajectories mod does for you. I've been using this for the last few weeks and consider it the greatest thing since canned beer. I haven't tried it at Laythe yet but it's flawless at Eve, Kerbin, and Duna, so I figure it should make Laythe aerobraking much easier.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Geschosskopf
typos

[numerobis]

Laythe aerobraking is very, very sensitive to Pe altitude, much moreso than any other planet.

Indeed. That's the combined fault of the scale height and the small size of the SOI. Set Pe down by 2750m and you've doubled your max air pressure. Be off by a couple hundred m/s of aerobraking and it's the difference between sailing off and landing.

If you set it too low, you're probably not lithobraking -- you're aquabraking.

[SmartS=true]

Laythe, because it has oxygen. There is something in Tac like support that lets you extract oxygen from IntakeAir, so you only have to ship food and water on a regular basis.

[somewhatcasual]

Just saw the movie interstellar. Need to colonize things now. Also need somewhat whitty computer sidekicks. Ill start tomorrow.

[goldenpsp]

Well, my 1st input would be to not use MKS. As much as I love all that RoverDude has done for the community, I've been using MKS from the get-go and have seen it deteriorate from a "highly abstract" system that actually did what it claimed to do, into a highly complex, undocumented nightmare requiring way more micromanagement to make work than its supposed benefits are worth. If it even still actually works for anything other than a tiny outpost, which I've come strongly to doubt. Plus, RoverDude gins out a game-breaking update every few weeks anyway. So, bottom line with MKS is, don't get into MKS (at least for the present) unless all you want to do in the game is be an MKS tester. If you instead actually want to play the game, then don't do MKS until it settles down into something that actually works without inordinate hassle. Which, given the ongoing trend, I don't think is going to happen anytime soon, if ever. If you want to do life support, it's WAY WAY easier just to send out periodic supply ships than it is to make MKS work.

Actually in terms of MKS I would high recommend getting the full picture directly from the release thread rather than just one person. Judging by the large number of users of Roverdudes mods (including myself) Geschosskopf's experience may be more the exception than the rule.

[Kerba Fett]

While you said you're not interested in the Mun or Minmus, from a logic standpoint one of those would be the obvious choice. Your first offworld base should be a stepping stone. A proof of concept. You'd want that close to home in case of unexpected problems.

In my opinion, minmus would be a great choice for resource mining. Reaching LKO with supplies or fuel takes at least 4500 m/s of dV from the surface. Reaching LKO from the surface of minmus takes about 500 to 750 m/s. Returning to the surface of minmus for your next shipment takes about 1500 m/s so a round trip still uses about half the dV that coming from the surface of kerbin takes.

That's a lot of extra stuff on every trip and you still get to use Kerbins oberth effect for interplanetary trips

Another option to consider is an OKS station. When you're on the ground half your time will be spent in the dark. An MKS command module consumes a decent amount of electricity when active. So does resource mining. With an orbital station your nights are a lot shorter and solar arrays are more practical.

An orbital station also give you easier access to more of the surface. A round trip to the far side of the planet from a surface base is a long trip that will consume a lot of fuel. From an orbital station it's just another landing spot. This lets you visit all the biomes for science with less fuel.

You'll still need to put an outpost on the surface to do resource mining, but it can be a lot smaller and simpler since it would get it's supplies from the orbiting station.

Also, if you weren't already planning on Universal Storage, you should have a look at it. It's a tidy way to store things on your station and if you use KAS you can swap storage wedges as needed.

Finally keep in mind that a surface base is going to require precision landing skills to use. I usually use a small lander to scout the area for flat ground and place 3 flags in a large triangle containing the base site. Then I land all base modules inside the triangle and I've got fairly flat ground to work with.

While landing in an atmosphere is easy thanks to parachutes, precision landing is much harder since the upper atmosphere can have a huge effect on your final landing site.