Grand Prix offroad car racing championship [16/11 - weight rule edited]

[RussaX]

Welcome to Grand Prix offroad car racing challenge which will test your skills and ability to create great piece of racing machine and drive it on the absolutly edge.

Description

Offroad racing contain racing on four wheels on the solid ground of Kerbin.

This championship contains 5 races in which is possible to win maximum of 125 points.

Race track and all needed info will be in this post. First race will start for the 3 days after opening this challenge as we have to see how many players are interested and to check car designs, questions and possible changes.

After releasing racing track there is 3 days time to edit racing car and register a personal best time and post it in thread in accordance with the rules.

After 3rd day listings will be checked and times will be registered as right after is coming another track and same way until championship is over.

All valid results you can find in this thread on the first post.

Note:

All content and rules can be changed at any time so be aware of that specialy at the beginning of the challenge because everything is new.

All changes I make I will leave a note in "challenge edit log" what and when is changed so you can easy notice if anything is changed.

Also be a part of this project and post some suggestions.

Rules

Basic:

1.1. Only stock parts are allowed.

1.2. Minimum vehicle mass with full rcs tank has to be 0.7 t.

1.3. Vehicle must have only four RoveMax Model M1 wheels and on the flat surface they all have to touch the ground. All wheels can steer.

1.4. All sources of power except rcs and electric thrust from wheels are not allowed.

1.5. Vehicle has to have 1 external command seat and kerbal has to control it.

1.6. Vehicle has to have roll bar to protect kerbal from impacts at any time.

1.7. Battery and RCS fuel tank has to be secured from any possible impacts.

1.8. You can be asked any time to send vehicle file or be asked for a change.

1.9. Every season after first race is finished car designs will be locked so you won't be able to change car design until season is finished. New players who joined in the middle of the season will affect same rule after first race they make.

1.10. When vehicle design is locked you are allowed to edit Elevon 1 wings angle.

1.11. For vehicle redesign while car designs are locked player will be penalised with deduction of 25 championship points.

Control:

1.9. All RoveMax Model M1 wheels can steer, accelerate and brake.

1.10. Responsive control system is available, only one FL-R10 rcs tank is allowed. Four linear RCS ports are allowed and can be placed anywhere on the vehicle.

Aerodynamics:

1.11. All Aerodynamic parts except two Elevon 1 wings are not allowed.

1.12. One Elevon 1 wing has to be set on front and other one on the rear part of the vehicle. You are allowed to control wings during race.

2.1. The beginning of the every race as all informations will be announced bottom in this thread.

2.2. There is no set deadline to post your entry time so race will end when there is enough player entries. Expected time for 1 race will be around 7 days depend on players activity.

2.3. You have to use PersistentTrails plugin which can be downloaded here to see race track and to be able to leave your trail.

2.4. After track is published you have to download track, edit your car, record lap time and post in this thread details (image of your vehicle, start and finish line and your recorded line on the track).

2.5. You have to start in front of start line from the 0 m/s speed and it is required to make screenshot just before you start (touching start/finish line won't count or will be time penalised same as if you haven't started from 0 speed).

2.6. You are finished just as you have crossed line with the front wheels (if you haven't crossed it, it won't count or it will be time penalised).

2.7. Your Persistent trail should be placed right on the center of mass of your vehicle which should be somewhere in the center. You are allowed to cross corners with 2 wheels just to the center of your vehicle. Persistent trail should not cross the corner line. (For corner cutting your lap won't count or it will be time penalised).

2.8. If there is any irregularity or cheating your time will not be listed and you can be banned from this challenge.

3.1. After every race every driver will earn championship points regarding to finishing place. Points are collected during all the races and summ of the points equals overall standing in the championship.

3.2. Points scoring on place finishing is based on next:

1-25

2-20

3-16

4-13

5-11

6-10

...

15-1

Challenge edit log:

16.11.2014 Edited 1.2. rule. Minimum weight of 0.7 t with full rcs tanks stays the same but from now you are not limited with the maximum mass of your vessel.

14.11.2014 1.2. rule is changed (from 0.6-0.8 to 0.7-0.9), 2.1 and 2.2 rules are edited (no deadline), set rules about design lock in (1.9.,1.10. and 1.11. rules)

13.11.2014 challenge is open

Next race start:

Race 1

Weekend start 15/november

Track info:

Location: Kerbal space center

Lenght: 2km

Direction: Anti clockwise

Corners: 15

Left: 8

Right: 7

Preview:

DOWNLOAD

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Race results:

1.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.

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Championship standings:

1.

2.

3.

...

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Edited November 16, 2014 by RussaX

[The_Rocketeer]

Not that I think an offroad race championship is a bad idea in itself, I do feel there are some significant drawbacks to this suggestion.

For one thing, the mass-limit is almost unworkably low. The lack of weight make the cars very likely to skid/roll, and if downforce is used they're likely to flip or take off if they hit a bump. Most cars will be well on the way to the limit with an EAS-1 chair, 4 wheels and an RCS tank, let alone any sort of chassis or spoilers. If I were building a racing off-roader I'd want a relatively heavy car with a lot of traction and good airborne stability for any jumps.

For another, the Formula-K challenge uses in-game scenery to define the track, whereas you seem to be depending entirely on the Persistant Trails mod. I find that gets in the way of picking my driving line and tend to learn the tracks by heart before attempting the circuit with the Trails set to invisible.

Also your insistence on predetermined deadlines is a real turn-off. Formula-K events are (or at least appear to be) left open until a reasonable number of competitors have submitted a time.

I would consider making this a point-to-point time-trial-style challenge like WRC (i.e. with a series of checkpoints to reach) rather than following the Formula-K format. If you want people to engage with and attempt your challenges, they should be able to do it in their own time.

[RussaX]

Not that I think an offroad race championship is a bad idea in itself, I do feel there are some significant drawbacks to this suggestion.

For one thing, the mass-limit is almost unworkably low. The lack of weight make the cars very likely to skid/roll, and if downforce is used they're likely to flip or take off if they hit a bump. Most cars will be well on the way to the limit with an EAS-1 chair, 4 wheels and an RCS tank, let alone any sort of chassis or spoilers. If I were building a racing off-roader I'd want a relatively heavy car with a lot of traction and good airborne stability for any jumps.

For another, the Formula-K challenge uses in-game scenery to define the track, whereas you seem to be depending entirely on the Persistant Trails mod. I find that gets in the way of picking my driving line and tend to learn the tracks by heart before attempting the circuit with the Trails set to invisible.

Also your insistence on predetermined deadlines is a real turn-off. Formula-K events are (or at least appear to be) left open until a reasonable number of competitors have submitted a time.

I would consider making this a point-to-point time-trial-style challenge like WRC (i.e. with a series of checkpoints to reach) rather than following the Formula-K format. If you want people to engage with and attempt your challenges, they should be able to do it in their own time.

I dont want to use heavy cars because then acceleration and braking suffer a lot. Also cars won't be unstable if you design them well I have tryed a little bit and I am quite happy with this mass. Heavy off road vehice does not sound good for any kind of competition and racing because I wanted higher speed cars which should be easy to control. I have plan of some tracks which will suit this season rules then for future I am looking for more extreme tracks and cars will need to be very good designed so I will have to test a lot to find the best balance.

Yes I am going to mark track with Persistant Trails. not just the line but exactly track borders. I will check which width is the best for racing to ensure enough wide track for great racing. I didn't thinked about check points and I am not sure about that. I dont understand why would be hard to learn the track with marked track? It should be even more easy because all players are forced to go between 2 marked lines, you can do as many laps as you want and then turn on trail when you want to set the time. Remember we are not going in hills this season, this is why cars are so light and small. This is testing season and preparation for the second one (if there will be any interest for this one to success).

Yeah I am not sure about dead lines jet. I just started this challenge and I am looking foward for some players and comments. As it is said everything is new so I have to be flexibile with rules if I want to see some attempts.

For now everything stays the same and I will wait until start of the next race 16/november to see interest and comments about this challenge and then I will edit deadlines.

Thanks for ideas and questions.

[Pds314]

Not that I think an offroad race championship is a bad idea in itself, I do feel there are some significant drawbacks to this suggestion.

For one thing, the mass-limit is almost unworkably low. The lack of weight make the cars very likely to skid/roll, and if downforce is used they're likely to flip or take off if they hit a bump. Most cars will be well on the way to the limit with an EAS-1 chair, 4 wheels and an RCS tank, let alone any sort of chassis or spoilers. If I were building a racing off-roader I'd want a relatively heavy car with a lot of traction and good airborne stability for any jumps.

For another, the Formula-K challenge uses in-game scenery to define the track, whereas you seem to be depending entirely on the Persistant Trails mod. I find that gets in the way of picking my driving line and tend to learn the tracks by heart before attempting the circuit with the Trails set to invisible.

Also your insistence on predetermined deadlines is a real turn-off. Formula-K events are (or at least appear to be) left open until a reasonable number of competitors have submitted a time.

I would consider making this a point-to-point time-trial-style challenge like WRC (i.e. with a series of checkpoints to reach) rather than following the Formula-K format. If you want people to engage with and attempt your challenges, they should be able to do it in their own time.

Actually, I've found that I can get the CoM so low that it is essentially impossible to flip on a hill. As for skidding, I don't think KSP even allows that for stock wheels.

[The_Rocketeer]

Actually, I've found that I can get the CoM so low that it is essentially impossible to flip on a hill. As for skidding, I don't think KSP even allows that for stock wheels.

Oh yeh? Try driving straight up a steep hill on x2 speed. :-p

[RussaX]

Oh yeh? Try driving straight up a steep hill on x2 speed. :-p

As Pds314 has said it is possible to make very low CoM and it is possible to make distance between wheels etc, but that is not a point. for first season and this rules races will be let's say on flat surfaces with some jumps, corners and stuff like that. I dont have plan to go straight to hill because it is more complicated , specialy climbing and power and some lacks of grip. Everything what do I ask and expect was already tested by me and I am giving you some free space so challenge competitors will never be on the edge with psysichs of the game. Also thanks for discussion because I need to hear as much as possible positive and negative points and also I need to gain some interests for this competition.

I have seen already formula k championship challenge and I have found some negative points and ways to make it more interesting but I dont want to create similar challenges and go in Kyrian way because he has started before. This is going to be different and thrilling. Fast tracks, jumps, terrain, vehicle design battle and testing some driving skills.

[SaladFingers]

I will give it a try..I hope that wheels won't break from impact.

[RussaX]

I will give it a try..I hope that wheels won't break from impact.

Well if you drive it smooth it won't.

________________

My car for this season:

Here is my entry for race:

Lap time: 1:55 min

This track is challenging for a car design and driving skills with some tricky jumps and hard braking areas and chicane.

All in all when you find the right line it is very fun track.

ps. Idk how to create imgur gallery on forum. I have used [imgur] but always says that link of my gallery is wrong.

Edited November 15, 2014 by RussaX

[The_Rocketeer]

Idk how to create imgur gallery on forum. I have used [imgur] but always says that link of my gallery is wrong.

It's not working because you're using the whole URL. You only need the imgur reference for the actual gallery. This is normally just 5 characters in higher and lower case near the end of the URL.

So, not

[ imgur ] *imgur gallery URL* [ /imgur ]

but

[ imgur ] *imgur gallery reference code ONLY* [ /imgur ].

The persistant trails lines are what bothers me. Yes I know I can make them really narrow, but I like to drive with the camera nice and low, not with a high overhead view, so the trail lines would get in the way and make it difficult to see the shape of the corner. In the Formula K challenge I can just turn off the trail and look at the world to understand the shape of the corner.

[zekes]

I think I'll be trying this challenge....

[RussaX]

It's not working because you're using the whole URL. You only need the imgur reference for the actual gallery. This is normally just 5 characters in higher and lower case near the end of the URL.

So, not

[ imgur ] *imgur gallery URL* [ /imgur ]

but

[ imgur ] *imgur gallery reference code ONLY* [ /imgur ].

The persistant trails lines are what bothers me. Yes I know I can make them really narrow, but I like to drive with the camera nice and low, not with a high overhead view, so the trail lines would get in the way and make it difficult to see the shape of the corner. In the Formula K challenge I can just turn off the trail and look at the world to understand the shape of the corner.

Thanks. Take a look , it is not so high that you won't see track, so after you learn a track it should be easy. I can try to use lower center of mass for next time so line would be almost on the floor. Only possiblity for using check point doors would be if I would design track on inline style like u have said before rally. But I have that plan for a next season when we will be moving into challenging hills.

Also to remind you that KSP chase camera is very unfriendly for rough terrain, on jump or lumpy places you screen will be shaking with car because there is no tolerance. This is also the reason why I am looking car from far away because it seems to be a little bit better for orientation but still very unfriendly. I have posted already on suggestion about this, I am not sure if there exist any plugin to make it more smooth.

Edited November 15, 2014 by RussaX

[zekes]

Here is the Roadster I - Designed to be very VERY fast. can reach 60 m/s in about 8 seconds, and has RCS and wing thrust technology. I have a best time: 1 minute 50 seconds. Beat it!

Here's some pics of testing....

Edited November 15, 2014 by zekes

[RussaX]

Zekes ,just clicked on your sig, some amazing works.

Yeah go 80 m/s with wheels that can tolerate only 50m/s why not

Good laptime, make some screenshots.

1.11. All Aerodynamic parts except two Elevon 1 wings are not allowed.

and also 1.6. Vehicle has to have roll bar to protect kerbal from impacts at any time. Kerbal could be very easy hit and fall out if something get in a way.

and 1.12. One Elevon 1 wing has to be set on front and other one on the rear part of the vehicle. You are allowed to control wings during race.

also take care of car weight this one seems very light unless you did hide some parts under intake

I banned all aerodynamic parts because I dont want too advanced designs and controls, ok some parts can be used as estetic but I have banned whole aerodynamic section.

You are expirienced player and I am sure that you can make a hell of a car

anyway thanks for showing interest in this challenge.

[NQMT]

the mass-limit is almost unworkably low. The lack of weight make the cars very likely to skid/roll, and if downforce is used they're likely to flip or take off if they hit a bump.

This happened in testing, my car was too light and grippy and when you go up something, you just flip and flip and flip.

For another, the Formula-K challenge uses in-game scenery to define the track, whereas you seem to be depending entirely on the Persistant Trails mod. I find that gets in the way of picking my driving line and tend to learn the tracks by heart before attempting the circuit with the Trails set to invisible.

The reason why I used the KSC as my race track.

Also your insistence on predetermined deadlines is a real turn-off. Formula-K events are (or at least appear to be) left open until a reasonable number of competitors have submitted a time.

They're open for a maximum of twenty-one days, with some exceptions. Most normal cutoffs are two weeks but I do hold the door open for later people.

I would consider making this a point-to-point time-trial-style challenge like WRC (i.e. with a series of checkpoints to reach) rather than following the Formula-K format. If you want people to engage with and attempt your challenges, they should be able to do it in their own time.

Agreed. A checkpointed race works a lot better with offroad than circuits do.

It's a great idea for a challenge, but I (and assumedly The_Rocketeer) think you should:

- Only have a minimum weight, no maximum

- Have a bigger window for competitors

- Change the format of the race itself to a point-to-point dash.

Just suggestions. I'd like to hear what you think, RussaX. If you agree or disagree with things, let me know.

[RussaX]

This happened in testing, my car was too light and grippy and when you go up something, you just flip and flip and flip.

The reason why I used the KSC as my race track.

They're open for a maximum of twenty-one days, with some exceptions. Most normal cutoffs are two weeks but I do hold the door open for later people.

Agreed. A checkpointed race works a lot better with offroad than circuits do.

It's a great idea for a challenge, but I (and assumedly The_Rocketeer) think you should:

- Only have a minimum weight, no maximum

- Have a bigger window for competitors

- Change the format of the race itself to a point-to-point dash.

Just suggestions. I'd like to hear what you think, RussaX. If you agree or disagree with things, let me know.

Yeah seems like nobody is happy with low vessel mass so it is clear that rule has to be changed.

Challenge edit log:

16.11.2014 Edited 1.2. rule. Minimum weight of 0.7 t with full rcs tanks stays the same but from now you are not limited with the maximum mass of your vessel.

Deadlines are removed few days ago, there is no point to go to the next race until there is no reasonable number of players in competition.

Well I have a plan to use checkpoints for the next season when this challenge is going to move on hills.

For now alternative for unhappy players is on this

I have seen Formula K challenge and I see how do you like to have your camera and maybe you will have some disadvantages looking from this angle on a slope but that is maybe your comfortable way. I am looking from a distance and higher position because of unfriendly chase camera for bumps. I will search a little bit about this to add some tolerance because now there is a lot of screen shaking.

I dont understand what exactly do you mean with this "- Have a bigger window for competitors"

I have to see how it will go this season and learn to be able to find a great way for another season where it should be a little bit different and more extreme.

I hope to see some more interest and support to be able to keep it alive.

____________________

Going to do few laps and I am doing around 1:44 every single time... going to record it and then crashing every single time and doing mistakes.

I can tell you that this kerbal has survived so many crashes and flipping and has never fall out of vehicle.

overshoot turn 8 and almost fell down from ramp and some slight mistakes, so not a perfect lap but still a strong laptime for this car.

Lap time: 1:42 min

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Edited November 17, 2014 by RussaX

[NQMT]

By 'a bigger window' I meant have more time for new competitors to enter.

Also, thanks for the weight rule change, this'll make it a lot simpler. I may enter this, stay tuned.

[zekes]

wait, it's counter-clockwize? I've been doing it clockwize the whole time no wonder the launchpad was so hard to get onto....

[RussaX]

By 'a bigger window' I meant have more time for new competitors to enter.

Also, thanks for the weight rule change, this'll make it a lot simpler. I may enter this, stay tuned.

oh yes I have to wait every race until there is a reasonable number of players who entered and anyone can join at any time later as rules are adjusted for late entry.

It would be great to see expirienced person from f1.

wait, it's counter-clockwize? I've been doing it clockwize the whole time no wonder the launchpad was so hard to get onto....

Hahah I can imagine your struggle. On the first page there is a red arrow that shows direction as description says.

[SaladFingers]

okay I am getting better with the track... I will post my time soon

[RussaX]

First jump after first corner is very tricky because it is bugged a little bit. recommend you to go through the middle of the launchpad tracks.

Also the last one jump from the launch pad I recommend you to go through middle of the track or little bit on the right if you dont want to flip your car.

I can't wait to see one of the heavy ass cars that you were pushing so much for.

[RussaX]

Since there is not a lot of a interest about this challenge unfortunately it is probbably going to be closed to the end of the week.