getting to mun at low level

[blackfalcon]

So I have tier 1 on everything unlocked, which is all i can afford because it seems like the science you can unlock around kerban is very limited. Well to try and get more science i have been trying to get to the moon but i cant seem to get there because my rockets are to weak.

[Belphegor]

can you please post a picture of the rocket that brought you the furthest? it's definitely possible, i'm sure you'll get some good tips here if people can see how your spacecraft is built.

and what is your technique to get to the moon? there are plenty of guides on how to make the transfer most efficient. check youtube if you haven't already.

edit. if you didn't change the difficulty options there should be a lot more science points to earn around kerbin i think.. here are some from the top off my head.

goo pods - in low kerbin orbit, high kerbin orbit, flying over kerbin, landed on every biome

science jr. - same

crew report - flying at kerbin, low kerbin orbit, high kerbin orbit

EVA reports - from low kerbin orbit over every individual biome, landed at every biome

surface samples from every biome. there are some small unique biomes at KSC too, like the launchpad, runway, spaceplane hangar, KSC grounds and those tracks leading to the launchpad

contracts are also a good source of science points

Edited November 20, 2014 by Belphegor

[blackfalcon]

can you please post a picture of the rocket that brought you the furthest? it's definitely possible, i'm sure you'll get some good tips here if people can see how your spacecraft is built.

and what is your technique to get to the moon? there are plenty of guides on how to make the transfer most efficient. check youtube if you haven't already.

edit. if you didn't change the difficulty options there should be a lot more science points to earn around kerbin i think.. here are some from the top off my head.

goo pods - in low kerbin orbit, high kerbin orbit, flying over kerbin, landed on every biome

science jr. - same

crew report - flying at kerbin, low kerbin orbit, high kerbin orbit

EVA reports - from low kerbin orbit over every individual biome, landed at every biome

surface samples from every biome. there are some small unique biomes at KSC too, like the launchpad, runway, spaceplane hangar, KSC grounds and those tracks leading to the launchpad

contracts are also a good source of science points

Yea, I am using the research mode. I found the money concept annoying, and even if you activate only 5% of funds to research, you still get like 300 science per mission. I like the idea of working for my science and unlocking it slowly its just that i feel like im at a deadlock. I will try landing on all the bioms for the science.

[Belphegor]

ah okay, good luck!

[eddiew]

Yea, I am using the research mode. I found the money concept annoying, and even if you activate only 5% of funds to research, you still get like 300 science per mission. I like the idea of working for my science and unlocking it slowly its just that i feel like im at a deadlock. I will try landing on all the bioms for the science.

You don't have to activateany funds being converted to research But yes, that particular policy is known to be extremely OP. Personally I put my career mode on 50% funds, 40% science, and 60% reputation, and didn't use any admin policies. So far it's turning out roughly right, although I think the funds might be just a tad on the low side, and rep could have been lower. 60/40/40 might have been a better start level.

To answer the actual question, yes it's very plausible to do an early Mun landing. If you have stack separators and LV-45 engines, that's about all you need. Access to the LV-909 is nice for landers, but not mandatory if you build carefully. Never tried with just the basic LV-30, can't remember if it can gimbal; if not it'll be a pain to steer. You can also consider Minmus, which takes about the same fuel to get to orbit around it, but requires significantly less to land on and get back from. Also much softer touchdowns, so you can get away without landing legs more easily

I recommend getting the Kerbal Engineer mod, which will show you up front what your thrust to weight ratios are on your rocket, and the delta-v you can expect. Assuming you're running with stock aerodynamics, this cheat sheet will tell you roughly how much delta-v you need up front or order to be able to get from Kerbin to anywhere in the system. For Mun, you want 4550 (low Kerbin orbit) plus 860 (Mun intercept) plus 210 (low Mun orbit) plus 640 to actually land; a total of 6260 to get to Munar soil, if you pilot it perfectly.

As a rule of thumb, I like to touchdown on Mun with 1200 dv left in the tank, which is enough to make a small hop to an adjacent biome for a second surface sample and then come home, but it seems possible to ride the fumes back with just 600 or so, if you're careful about how to leave Mun's orbit and don't mind hitting Kerbin's atmosphere at 3km/s. Just make sure to plan all the manoeuvre node up front, before you commit to the first big burn, so's you can see whether you'll make it or not! Playing with the angle at which you leave Mun's orbit can vastly alter the eventual cost

Obviously overspeccing delta-v is tempting, but be wary of over-engineering your ships; every kg of extra mass you add from stuff you don't vitally need means tens of kg of extra fuel to get it where it's going. I'd start by making a one-piece lander with 2000 delta-v in it, at least 0.2 TWR, and some parachutes, which you can be confident will get you from low Mun orbit, to the surface, and back to Kerbin. After that, all you need to do is stage more fuel tanks and rockets, totalling 5600+ delta-v, who's job it is to get you to Munar orbit. If you've kept the lander light, this isn't nearly as hard as it sounds! A lot of problems people have with getting enough delta-v seems to be overspecced craft that weigh too much. For guidance, 5thHorseman has some good youtube videos on KSP, and nearly everything he builds is absolutely tiny and uses low tech parts - but it tends to get where it's going!

Good luck!

[The_Rocketeer]

A big early boost in science mode is to forget actually landing and just go for low-altitude fly-by's on Mun and Minmus, and snap up a big crop of EVA, Crew Report and Mystery Goo science on the way past. This is much easier and more accessible because you can use free-return trajectories to use absolutely no fuel on the way around, and if you're quick you'll be able to get a few different biomes from low-altitude EVAs.

Another really easy stash can be grabbed by making a hop to just outside Kerbin's SOI to get Sun (High Space) science.

If you're determined to land on the Mun at this level, it's by no means out of the question. This video might serve as inspiration:

Edited November 20, 2014 by The_Rocketeer

[AlexinTokyo]

Back in the days before Funds, my usual start to a career was:

1. Atmospheric or suborbital hop
   
2. Orbital flight
   
3. Mun Free Return
   
4. Minmus landing
   

After that, you should have enough science to do basically anything you want.

[SRV Ron]

This very basic ship, flown carefully for a Mun free return trajectory, has an LV-909 third stage, will gather a bunch of science for you to unlock additional tech. If playing hard mode, only spend research funds on those parts you will actually use.

[UmbralRaptor]

I'm going to keep on linking the rocket I used to land on the Mun in the previous version, because it seems to be a useful starting point.

Required unlocks: Basic Rocketry, Survival. Optional Unlocks: General Rocketry. Expand the lower stage from 3 to 4 columns if you're having trouble getting it to orbit. There's no real mass headroom for adding science gear for a Mun mission, and not much for a Minmus one, but then this design is about simplicity.

[cantab]

It doesn't take much to get to orbit the Mun or Minmus. As seen in some of the ships being posted chute, pod, FL-T400 tank, engine will do it. If you can put that in Kerbin orbit without using any of its fuel you're set. There's plenty of worthwhile science to be done in Mun and Minmus orbit, landing can come later.

[Starman4308]

There's been another recent thread here. In short, I'll echo what's been said before: you can get some spectacular gains from a Munar flyby*, milk crew reports to the greatest extent possible, and EVA reports are your friend. One caution on crew reports: they cost 30 electrical charge to send, the Mk. 1 capsule stores 50 charge, and the only way to get electricity before solar panels is to fire liquid-fuel engines (not including the LV-909, which strangely has no electrical generation). You also need some of that electricity to turn your vehicle: reaction wheels cost charge.

*The way to do it is a free-return trajectory. This requires that you set up an early, high-thrust Hohmann transfer which gives you a figure-8 around the Mun and back into Kerbin atmosphere. Don't be too afraid if you can't quite nail the Kerbin atmosphere: you can perform correction burns very efficiently at your Munar periapsis (all praise Oberth). NecroBones has a couple free-return tutorials in his sig.

EVA reports from low orbit are unique to the biome, so you can get different EVA reports from low space over: Kerbin's oceans, Kerbin's grasslands, Kerbin's highlands, Kerbin's mountains, Kerbin's shores, and a few misplaced patches of tundra in a single equatorial orbit. If you go into a polar orbit, you can also collect the poles, tundra the legitimate way, and badlands: Kerbin will rotate under you as you orbit, allowing you to fly over everything if you are sufficiently patient. The Gravioli detector also has the wonderful property of having biome-unique reports from low orbit (and high orbit too), but takes a long time to get to, but everything else is either global (unique to situation, not biome) or requires that you be in atmosphere or landed.

I designed a Munar rocket which requires a bit more than Umbral's rocket: it requires basic rocketry, stability, survivability, and Science Tech, but is 100% capable of landing 4 goo pods and 4 Science Jrs. on the Mun and returning. Three pieces of advice not conveyed by the picture: add a couple radial parachutes (the lander is too heavy for the one parachute I used on the test), right-click and remove all monopropellant from the command pod, and right-click the RT-10s to set their max thrust to be about 60-80%.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Starman4308

[Pecan]

...Never tried with just the basic LV-30, can't remember if it can gimbal; if not it'll be a pain to steer...

It can't gimbal but is cheaper and higher-thrust than the T45. Pod SAS is easily sufficient for making the gravity turn. Once in orbit the 909 takes over so no worries.