Conservatives Can Be Reasonable People, Too

[Majiir]

I like to think I\'m one of them.

Most people are a bit of a mixed bag politically, and there isn\'t a precise label for everyone. I\'m a conservative, but I\'m also an outspoken atheist. I oppose abortion and the death penalty, but I think both should be up to the states. Simultaneously, I think the second amendment (of the U.S. constitution) has been too broadly interpreted, and that may well not be up to the states.

I think my views are compatible, but whenever they make me 'in' with one crowd, others make me 'out' with that same crowd. I was watching some videos from the Reason Rally that was recently held in Washington DC, and the speakers talked as if all atheists are liberals, and that all reasonable people would arrive at those same liberal conclusions. This is false.

So, next time you assume that a conservative is a bible-thumping idiot, think twice. I think what U.S. politics lacks is ideological consistency, and that\'s something I like to bring to the table. There are a lot of ways to combine ideas from both sides as traditionally defined, and my views represent just one of those ways.

Has anyone else felt like a 'misfit' along the usual political lines, either in the U.S. or another country?

[NovaSilisko]

Well, as quite a strong liberal in a family of liberals, I feel like an outcast in a predominantly conservative part of the country...

[Endeavour]

My views tend to be so mixed that I just consider myself an independent.

[Majiir]

Well, as quite a strong liberal in a family of liberals, I feel like an outcast in a predominantly conservative part of the country...

I\'m born/raised in Vermont, and currently living/working in Massachusetts, so it seems we\'re in similar situations. To be honest, I always liked it that way. I\'ve had lots of exposure to ideas I disagree with, and it\'s given me good reason to really think hard about my positions. I spent a few years in a conservative part of Colorado (albeit at a mostly liberal school) and it was boring. It\'s not that people agreed with me—they usually didn\'t—it\'s that nobody cared much at all. Nobody really felt strongly about much of anything, or if they did, they had no reason other than 'I was raised that way.'

I think that\'s a common criticism that conservatives, but being in the northeast, I can tell you liberals aren\'t any better. I don\'t know how recent this phenomenon is, but both poles are very dogmatic. I occasionally have to remind one of my liberal friends that he\'s a smart guy who doesn\'t have to follow the party lines all the time.

[Misterspork]

Be careful with your use of the term 'bible thumping idiot'...

[Majiir]

Be careful with your use of the term 'bible thumping idiot'...

I used that phrase to describe the way some mischaracterize me. I think my use was fair, and I wasn\'t making a statement about bible-readers.

[Endeavour]

The conservatives I know don\'t think for themselves. They just believe what other conservatives tell them to believe.

[NovaSilisko]

I really hate how polarized it all is. My mother has been shouted at for talking about Obama\'s healthcare in a grocery store...

Can\'t we all just agree to disagree? This is supposed to be a democracy, not a warzone...

[Misterspork]

The conservatives I know don\'t think for themselves. They just believe what other conservatives tell them to believe.

For me it seems the same way for the liberals I know. Others say 'This is bad' and they follow.

[thorfinn]

Can\'t we all just agree to disagree? This is supposed to be a democracy, not a warzone...

Well, I\'m not American, but I think that there isn\'t much difference about the particular point I\'m going to make between western countries...

The problem, I believe, is that of a 'scientistic' approach to politics that is much in vogue these days. People have been convinced that all matters of government are just administrative problems, which 'any honest person with a calculator' could solve; economists, and their fans of the Austrian or Keynesian persuasion, shout that they have a true, scientific economic model that describes how to run a state: if that was really so, anyone who holds a different opinion wouldn\'t be just disagreeing with me, but wrong; ad that\'s exactly how most people behave today. Nobody wants to accept that the most basic matters of economy are, in the end, matters of personal preference: no, there is a scientifically right way to do things, so anybody else is wrong, and thus evil if he insists with his ideas.

The almost complete lack of real predictive capability in economics, strangely, doesn\'t scratch this belief.

[Endeavour]

America has a lot of really issues that get overshadowed by ANYTHING that happens. We like to forget about the real issues, and focus on the good things.

[Majiir]

I sometimes hear people say 'I\'m not a conservative or a liberal. I just use common sense.' The problem with this is that common sense isn\'t common. I think that most differences between liberals and conservatives come down to their respective interpretations of liberty. When you don\'t agree on that, you just can\'t find philosophical common ground, because your policy is designed to accomplish what you believe is inherently right and what someone else believes is inherently wrong. When you consider this, the U.S. founding fathers seem ever wiser for creating a country that allows those different philosophies to exist (in the states) as one nation.

In my opinion, a scientific approach to politics can work, but only if you\'re brutally honest with yourself about what your underlying philosophy is. If you find that difficult, maybe that should be a clue that you need to revise your philosophy. How can you be proud of your policies if you aren\'t proud of their core principles?

[thorfinn]

The problem with this is that common sense isn\'t common. I think that most differences between liberals and conservatives come down to their respective interpretations of liberty.

One of our esteemed historians and freedom fighters, Norberto Bobbio, liked to put it more or less this way: 'All democratic men treasure Liberty and Equality, but in a pinch, the left-leaning man will favor the latter, and the right-leaning man the former.'

At least for the economic part, I think he was right.

And as you said, this is philosophy, and as I usually to add personal preference; if I like better one side of the tradeoff, it\'s just what I like, by itself it doesn\'t make me better or worse than those who like the opposite side.

[technoguy33]

I like to think of myself as a libertarian conservative due to my view points of politics. However I wear tie-died shirts, have long hair, don\'t bathe much, can\'t spell, and live off the grid. This just goes to show, you can\'t judge a book by it\'s cover. I agree, conservatives are people too.

[Gojira]

More guns, more safety.

Crime rates go down when families are allowed to defend themselves.

[Endeavour]

Gojira if you provide some sound evidence I may begin to believe that.

[N3X15]

I used to call myself a conservative.

Then Glenn Beck got on TV.

[Johno]

Gojira: It often comes as a shock to Americans to learn this - but in Australia, whilst you have the right to own a gun assuming you\'re not a known criminal or a lunatic, few of us actually do; and we don\'t suffer from a lot of violent crime. Rates of murder, rape, home invasion etc are comparable to what you\'d find in the USA and maybe a little lower. And accidental firearm deaths are orders of magnitude lower than yours (perhaps obviously, since there simply aren\'t enough firearms to make this a significant factor in death rates).

So no, I don\'t accept the 'firearms make people safer' idea. More than that, 'self defence' is not a valid reason for owning a gun in Australia - AND WE DON\'T MISS IT. You can have a handgun, rifle or shotgun if you need it (and 'Target shooting' or 'Historical gun collection' are perfectly valid reasons for owning them); but don\'t try carrying them in public.

[LukeTim]

I don\'t really identifiy very strongly with any of the political parties in the UK. If anything, I\'d probably describe myself as liberal... and perhaps even Marxist... but I really just prefer to consider myself an individual and not try to label my views.

[Caesar15]

I used to call myself a conservative.

Then Glenn Beck got on TV.

Glenn beck...he\'s an extreme conservative

[Majiir]

Glenn beck...he\'s an extreme conservative

I\'d say he\'s a theologian. An 'extreme conservative' would probably just go farther on some issues than I would, but Glenn Beck went in a totally different direction.

[Kryten]

I don\'t think you can really describe people like Beck with the word \'Conservative\'. He\'s basically a revolutionary.

[cardgame]

He\'s basically a smart guy who manipulates people with his insane 'politics' and gold buying advertisements. He\'s in it for him, and I doubt he believes half of what he sells on TV. Or used to sell, I guess I should say.

[Ydoow]

I really hate how polarized it all is.

I soooo agree with this.

My friend is going for Political Science, and his professor told him politics wasn\'t so polarized about 30 years ago or so.

It\'s weird to think that because I\'ve never seen it not polarized.

I absolutely hate how it\'s Democrafts vs. Republicans, one party vs. another. And they\'ll do anything to make the other look bad, anything to stop the other party from making progress just so that they can take the glory themselves.

I want to hurt people now.