Is this an unfairly impossible contract? Temperature scans aboe 6200m on Gilly.

[Dunbaratu]

I accepted a contract for temperature scans on Gilly. I didn't expect the game to give me a literally impossible contract (well, I knew about the launch stabalizers on the mun problem with some of the test contracts, but this is different. It's not a part test contract.)

The problem: The contract requires a temperature scan ABOVE 6200m on Gilly, but that's higher than the maximum altitude the game will allow temperature scans on a body without an atmosphere like Gilly.

Am I correct that the game created an impossible contract here? And if so, is there a way I can massage the data to undo it without being penalized for "my" failure?

[Captain Sierra]

So . . . . the thermometer cannot collect data in the situation "In space high". The wiki is rather mum on what actual surface altitude that is defined as per the game. On Kerbin, you must be over 300km, or 230,900 meters above the atmosphere to reach that situation. I do not know what it is on Gilly. If it is in fact below 6200m, then yes, the contract is impossible.

In that case, you can take the other two scans (if possible) and return the data. From there, you have to go into the debug and force complete the contract. It will count as a success (though you will not get the ancillary reward for that one scan) and you won't take the rep hit. Alternatively you might be able to turn down the contract without taking the rep hit via the debug, but I'm not well versed with the debug cheat menu for contracts (never played with those options, I just know they're there).

[Dunbaratu]

Okay thanks for the advice. I'll try the debug menu to get out of it. I also may fire up the C# development environment and try querying the API to find out exactly what it has defined as the "in space high above" altitude for Gilly, to confirm whether this is truly impossible. If it is, then this should be a bug report for SQUAD. I think it is because I've tried twice to take the scan, once as low as a mere 6250m and it still said "temperature scan can't be done right now".

As a secondary bug report, once you DO get the "temperature scan can't be done right now" message, it removes the "log temperature" button from the RMB menu for the thermometer. IF you then lower your altitude to the point where it can be done, even to the point of actually landing entirely, the "log temperature" button is still missing when you bring up the RMB menu, so you can't. The only way to get the button to appear again is to switch to a different vessel far away (unloading the current one) and then come back to this one again (reloading the vessel) to make the button re-appear.

[Commander Jebidiah]

Just to say this should be in gameplay questions sub-forum not in support

[Kesa]

Just to say this should be in gameplay questions sub-forum not in support

Well, if the contract is impossible, this is a bug. But I agree He'll have more help posting in gameplay questions. I'm pretty sure such a question has been posted there a while ago, but I don't remember what the response was (or were, there were plenty!)

[Dunbaratu]

Well, if the contract is impossible, this is a bug.

Correct. My main goal in posting was not "please help me solve this", although finding out about the debug menu to solve it was nice. My main goal was "tell SQUAD the bug exists".

And I thought the support forum *was* the right place to report a bug.

[Commander Jebidiah]

Well, if the contract is impossible, this is a bug. But I agree He'll have more help posting in gameplay questions. I'm pretty sure such a question has been posted there a while ago, but I don't remember what the response was (or were, there were plenty!)

As far as I can tell it's not impossible you should be able to take a scan it will tell you its not possible but you should be able to get the contract completed

[Dunbaratu]

As far as I can tell it's not impossible you should be able to take a scan it will tell you its not possible but you should be able to get the contract completed

Nope. I'm within the area, the screen hints say "you have now entered such and such area", my altitude is above the requirement, I take the temperature scan and it says I can't do that at the moment, and the contract is not fufilled. I tried that twice before giving up on it.

Normally the contract temperature milestone is completed when the little popup window appears with the science report (where you can recycle, or keep the report) - if you don't have permission to perform the temp scan, then that popup never appears, and the contract parameter isn't satisfied.

[Arugela]

Can the science nose cone do it? I haven't tried it out but I was wondering if it did what the other small items could do. Maybe it has better range. If it can it could be a purposeful game design.

[Captain Sierra]

Okay, I MIGHT have found a way to determine the impossibility of this.

On Kerbin, the situation "In space high" begins at 300,000m. Kerbin's equatorial radius is 600,000m. Its unclear if this is in fact the relationship which defines the fomer parameter, but if it is, lets look at Gilly.

Gilly's equatorial radius (relative ASL) is 12,000m. By the logic above, the situation "In space high" begins at 6,000m ASL alt. If the contract is asking for the scan at 6,200m ASL, then the contract is in fact impossible assuming the above is correct. For validation, I'd ask someone to perform temp scans sligtly above and slightly below altitudes of 6,200m and 6,000m. I don't have hyperedit at the time, but once I install it, I'll validate myself.

[birrhan]

Okay, I MIGHT have found a way to determine the impossibility of this.

On Kerbin, the situation "In space high" begins at 300,000m. Kerbin's equatorial radius is 600,000m. Its unclear if this is in fact the relationship which defines the fomer parameter, but if it is, lets look at Gilly.

Gilly's equatorial radius (relative ASL) is 12,000m. By the logic above, the situation "In space high" begins at 6,000m ASL alt. If the contract is asking for the scan at 6,200m ASL, then the contract is in fact impossible assuming the above is correct. For validation, I'd ask someone to perform temp scans sligtly above and slightly below altitudes of 6,200m and 6,000m. I don't have hyperedit at the time, but once I install it, I'll validate myself.

I had this same issue, similar contract, identical altitude (6200 m on Gilly). At 5990 m the temperature can be taken, but does not register as part of the completed contract; above 6000 m the temperature cannot be taken, and the contract remains uncompleted. My probe had 4 thermometers, and for the condition that satisfies "in orbit high" (e.g. > 6000 m), in addition to the failure to measure temperature, the thermometer would lose the ability to measure temperature.

thanks for pointing this out. I was beginning to think I was paranoid.

[GigaG]

The high-low border is shown in this graph, although it is a bit of an unusual place and name (just border without specifying what it is the border between.)

http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Science#Celestial_body_multipliers

6km. So yeah, this is impossible.

[Kersplattle]

Just for info, I have exactly the same issue although I'm a little closer at 6100m, but after faffing around for ages trying to get over the highest piece of Gilly nearby on the hope that it would help, I simply can't get a scan done. As it is actually impossible I think it is debug time...

[Spheniscine]

Another possible solution: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/56137-Probe-Science-config-files

I've not tested it with 0.90 though, so no guarantees that it'll work.

edit: Hmm looking at Kerbalmaps, Gilly has a weird case where the highest point (6401m) is higher than the "in space near" border (6000m). I wonder if that might have contributed to the bug.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Spheniscine

[Thanny]

The easiest solution is to edit the save file (it's all text) and change the altitude for that part of the contract.

I found out the bit posted by Spheniscine the hard way - after putting up an orbiter below 6km to do temperature scans, it disappeared after colliding with invisible terrain.

[Myslius]

The terrain is visible as posted above: the highest point (6401m). Well, my orbiter orbits at 5.990&5990 near equator. so far no crashes. I can confirm that it's not possible to measure a temperature above 6km. A bug.

Edit:Sat crashed too. Impossible to keep in low orbit too?

Edited January 15, 2015 by Myslius