Change in Stock Aerodynamics?

[bakanando]

When I started playing 0.90 I created a new career to test the new features (which I disliked, but that's for another thread), but when I launched my first rocket it became unwieldy in flight without SAS on. I thought it was the design that lacked enough control authority but it kept happening with all rockets I was launching and -for what it's worth- returning.

I later went to my 0.24 ongoing career where I launched a rocket that I've used many times for some orbital tests and I had the same problem. This particular rocket had no problem when not using SAS while going straight up, but now it tilts slightly. Rockets are pulling too much towards the prograde vector so even a slight misalignment at launch will throw your heading off.

I cannot confirm that there has been a change to the aerodynamics, but flying rockets through atmosphere has a different feel than before the update.

Can anyone confirm or refute this?

[Overfloater]

I'm quite sure there's been no change in aerodynamics.

Does your rocket use fuel lines? Is there an upside down capsule/probe on it? Is something generating lots of drag on top of the rocket?

Did you rebuild it from scratch in 0.90 or did you use the same file?

All of these could be the cause of this problem.

Perhaps you could post a picture of this rocket?

[spinomonkey]

If I'm reading your post correctly- I think can be solved by including a proper probe core?

[bakanando]

It's just a F-LT800 with a LV-30 topped by a normal pod MK1 plus six solid boosters strapped to the sides that are staged two by two.

But I noticed it too when coming back down with only a pod and solid booster, the way it fell before opening parachutes felt different. It felt more sluggish.

[Technical Ben]

DO parachute cones now give the "cone effect"?

[Pecan]

Aerodynamics didn't change for 0.90 but they will for the next update so expect big changes.

What did change this time around is the way SAS and reaction wheels work.

[KerikBalm]

What did they change about how reaction wheels work?

[thereaverofdarkness]

I noticed this also when I first started 0.90 but then it seemed to go away. I can't get it to happen again. I don't know what caused it. Everyone says it's about the new piloting mechanics but I had a standard rocket fly out of control when it was being piloted by Jebediah and with SAS on.

[Pecan]

What did they change about how reaction wheels work?

Some of the probe cores don't have them any more, so are unable to control orientation on their own. (Add a specific SAS/reaction wheel unit, RCS or, in atmosphere, control surfaces).

If a rocket that worked before is now uncontrollable, the chances are it doesn't have any/enough torque available.

[arkie87]

This might be related/unrelated, but I've noticed that vehicles are also *too* unstable on their own, without SAS, as if they generate their own forces...

For example, i had a craft landed on minmus. As soon as i disembarked the pilot, since there was no SAS, the craft was left on its own, and it flipped over, despite being on flat terrain with a wide base...

[Claw]

For example, i had a craft landed on minmus. As soon as i disembarked the pilot, since there was no SAS, the craft was left on its own, and it flipped over, despite being on flat terrain with a wide base...

My suspicion with this is that you had some trim set on the craft (intentional or accidental). So when the SAS disengaged, the trim took over and flipped the craft.

Cheers,

-Claw

[arkie87]

My suspicion with this is that you had some trim set on the craft (intentional or accidental). So when the SAS disengaged, the trim took over and flipped the craft.

Cheers,

-Claw

Yeah, i think that is what happened, and ive noticed "phantom torques" a lot, but i think it was just trim.

I think i need to attach trim to a new button, since sometimes i force physical time warp (alt+< or alt+>) while flying the craft i.e. pressing asfwqe keys

[PB666]

When I started playing 0.90 I created a new career to test the new features (which I disliked, but that's for another thread), but when I launched my first rocket it became unwieldy in flight without SAS on. I thought it was the design that lacked enough control authority but it kept happening with all rockets I was launching and -for what it's worth- returning.

I later went to my 0.24 ongoing career where I launched a rocket that I've used many times for some orbital tests and I had the same problem. This particular rocket had no problem when not using SAS while going straight up, but now it tilts slightly. Rockets are pulling too much towards the prograde vector so even a slight misalignment at launch will throw your heading off.

I cannot confirm that there has been a change to the aerodynamics, but flying rockets through atmosphere has a different feel than before the update.

Can anyone confirm or refute this?

I agree, rockets are very difficult to control. Its not the aerodynamics, it appears to be timing between keyboard and the stability control unit of the pod. The problem is more noticible if you increase your screen resolution. Apparently as program demands increase the keyboard commands are read as different length intervals and stability control decrease. I had to change my screen resolution because 0.90 flattened everything in the resolution that I was previously using. This meant more video demand and thus more clock cycles to update. Ironically, The longer and heavier the ship was the easier it was to control.

One issue you might investigate, SAS does not work without a titled Pilot (see astronaut complex for new astronaut classifications). Basically before any flight you need to select your nauts from the crew tab in the VAB. Pilots appear to get more skilled as they progress.

Another issue I found annoying is that KSC eats grounded nauts in physics warp mode. In the previous version it only killed craft above physics warp 2X now it eats kerbals also.

Also, parts have disappeared. I can no longer find the air scoops for side mounting air intakes.

Other gripes. Basic upgrades for KSC facilities are too expensive, how expensive can it be to have a launch pad that holds more than 18tons when the current launch pad is made of unleveled compressed aggregate.

- - - Updated - - -

Toggle off the torque unit before leaving the craft. Make sure there are no obstructions close to the pod door or the naut will apply thrust to your rocket as he is kicked off.

My suspicion with this is that you had some trim set on the craft (intentional or accidental). So when the SAS disengaged, the trim took over and flipped the craft.

Cheers,

-Claw