A theory about time travel and the multiverse

[xenomorph555]

I'll try to keep this short, I have a theory that is likely of the target by miles but bare with me, a large argument against the possibility of time travel by humans is that none have come to visit us from the future so far but what if the reason is because it isn't possible to go back in time...in the same reality. What if when someone travels to the past they are accessing a different universe from ours but is completely the same with the only difference being the traveller and the differences he would bring.

I will give an example, it is 2100 of this reality (A), a man travels back to now but we would not see him because he would have accessed a exact replica reality ( and would be there.

Just a thought.

[GoSlash27]

I'll try to keep this short, I have a theory that is likely of the target by miles but bare with me, a large argument against the possibility of time travel by humans is that none have come to visit us from the future so far but what if the reason is because it isn't possible to go back in time...in the same reality. What if when someone travels to the past they are accessing a different universe from ours but is completely the same with the only difference being the traveller and the differences he would bring.

I will give an example, it is 2100 of this reality (A), a man travels back to now but we would not see him because he would have accessed a exact replica reality ( and would be there.

Just a thought.

That would make a whole lot of sense. In fact without something like that happening, time travel has been arguably empirically proven impossible at any time.

Good one,

-Slashy

*edit* but upon further reflection... this universe would have to be immune to time travelers from alternate universes. Else they would've shown up.

Why would this particular universe be different?

Edited January 10, 2015 by GoSlash27

[xenomorph555]

After thinking more I came up with a second theory, it's quite difficult to explain. The alternate reality ( is created by the time travelling event, however it has always existed due to a sort of "pre-defined sense of time" in the universe. I predict there are 2 types of realities in the multi-verse, "regular" realities (like us) which are immune to time travel and "time parallelogram's" ( which their purpose of existing is due to time travelling events but are both created at the start of the universe and are present side by side.

Edited January 11, 2015 by xenomorph555

[Bill Phil]

That's a big assumption...

Perhaps our own universe is the product of a time travel event and the time traveller(s) already did their business, thus becoming a part of history.

[xenomorph555]

That's a big assumption...

Perhaps our own universe is the product of a time travel event and the time traveller(s) already did their business, thus becoming a part of history.

Maybe, that's a valid point. This point has made me think, what if only a very small majority of the multiverse is actually "regular realities and is mostly type B universes. What if these are not even caused by us but many species in the universe that we haven't discovered.

- - - Updated - - -

I should also mention this theory is based on wormhole based time travel, I understand there are over (albeit more limited) forms of time travel but this reactions of those events would require more time to theorise.

[rtxoff]

I'll try to keep this short, I have a theory that is likely of the target by miles but bare with me, a large argument against the possibility of time travel by humans is that none have come to visit us from the future so far but what if the reason is because it isn't possible to go back in time...in the same reality. What if when someone travels to the past they are accessing a different universe from ours but is completely the same with the only difference being the traveller and the differences he would bring.

I will give an example, it is 2100 of this reality (A), a man travels back to now but we would not see him because he would have accessed a exact replica reality ( and would be there.

Just a thought.

So why there where no visitors from the future coming from a different reality into our one?

[Bill Phil]

So why there where no visitors from the future coming from a different reality into our one?

They already have, or they will "show up" in our respective future.

[xenomorph555]

If our universe is a type A "regular" universe, it is immune from time travel.

If it is type B, as Bill said they may have already arrived or will arrive.

It is also possible that you cannot time travel to the same universe twice, and that trying to time travel again from "A" to "B" will actually result in "C" a new type B universe. If that is the case and the travellers have already come in the past we will not be receiving anymore.

[rtxoff]

I really don't understand why people are so obsessed with the idea of time travel into someones own past. Why not just assume the most obvious and say it is simply impossible. I don't think that baseless assumptions like "there are different realities" will bring us any enlightment in this matter.

It's highly illogical for me to assume different realities or universes while we can only percieve and observe our own reality and universe.

[Voyager55]

^^^^ I also think time travel into the past is simply impossible. If it were possible, there wouldn't be any existing timeline of anything. Because everyone who has ever has and ever will make a time machine and traveled anywhere has already done it. Everything would be constantly changing, one day you might just cease to exist. But then there's the theory that the universe somehow compensates for paradoxes on its own. And I just find that notion ridiculous, unless the universe somehow "knew" what it was doing, what a paradox is, and how to resolve one.

[xenomorph555]

I really don't understand why people are so obsessed with the idea of time travel into someones own past. Why not just assume the most obvious and say it is simply impossible. I don't think that baseless assumptions like "there are different realities" will bring us any enlightment in this matter.

It's highly illogical for me to assume different realities or universes while we can only percieve and observe our own reality and universe.

While yes time travel is most likely (99.9%) impossible, to say we should just assume stuff and never investigate sounds really foolish and backwards. "Space travel is impossible don't bother"-early 1900's guy

[Bill Phil]

^^^^ I also think time travel into the past is simply impossible. If it were possible, there wouldn't be any existing timeline of anything. Because everyone who has ever has and ever will make a time machine and traveled anywhere has already done it. Everything would be constantly changing, one day you might just cease to exist. But then there's the theory that the universe somehow compensates for paradoxes on its own. And I just find that notion ridiculous, unless the universe somehow "knew" what it was doing, what a paradox is, and how to resolve one.

You know what's ironic about that? A few months before the Wright Bros. flew their plane, a newspaper said that humans may not fly for millions of years.

Don't go and say "Impossible" until you know it's not possible. The only real thing that is DEFINITELY impossible, is impossibility. Especially if the multi-verse exists....

And another thing, if this type of time travel is possible, then it would prove the multi-verse (or a version of it) exists.

[G'th]

The whole thing about the old argument "well why haven't time travelers just revealed themselves yet", is that it doesn't quite try to explain why humans who have obtained the ability to time travel would actually do so. Short of some random genius inventing one out of a Delorian, any time machine that is invented is going to be tightly controlled, either by some government or the team of scientists who created it. (Or more likely, both) And its already a given that those people wouldn't be so unwise as to use the machine and then go televising the fact to the past, particularly if there wasn't any certainty in how doing so would affect their present.

And even if we go with the option of some other entity stealing it and then traveling into the past for personal gain, again, why would they advertise their time traveling? For one, few would believe them without proof (In which case, any personal gain would be lost anyway as it'd be seized by the first government to get its hands on them), and two, you'd want to keep eyes off of yourself otherwise you'd run into problems keeping whatever you gain.

Contrary to the popular idea, I don't believe time travel will ever be accessible to the general public, short of it being used as a means to counteract time dilation in space (in which case, its usage would still be very tightly knit).

[VincentS]

Time travel is already a fact, in the forward way. At each moment, we travel to a new state which is coherent with the current one according to physical laws. I believe that many such state exists, which makes free will and consciousness possible (maybe every state coherent with physics laws exists, but consciousness only "follow" (i.e. keep track) of one.). Thus, you may consider that moving forward in time actually create a new universe state. You don't "collide" into a pre-existing future universe, you create it by "choosing" one of those physically possibles.

And now for backward travel in time : I believe it would be the same and that a new universe state, coherent with physics, would stem from current universe state -- only physics laws would be applied backward. Thus no more time paradox would be created than when moving forward. It would either be strictly impossible to come back to a state already "visited", or at least very unlikely (an infinity of event would have to unroll exactly the way they rolled). A time loop in this context would require to come back to exactly the same universe state.

Interresting problems with this "theory" :

- A loop would require for the time traveler himself to be exactly the same, i.e. traveling same time forward and backward himself, and forgetting whatever he learned in the future when coming back…

- Multiple time travel trajectory between two dates would look like a solenoid, going up and down and coming close to already visited points again and again…

- At any moment, visit from the future is either never happened, or is the starting point of the current timeline. So it never happens in an "existing" timeline, which is coherent with no time traveler observation.

- No way (to my knowledge) to prove or disprove, or to make predictions, so not really a theory…

[Bill Phil]

Just a thought:

Does the universe have a frame rate? (Planck Time?)

And if so, could we take all the energy in the universe at one frame, remove to do something, and put it back in the right way?

[AngelLestat]

I am not sure if time traveling is possible, in case it is I think we have two possibilities:

1-Each time that someone goes back in time, we do it in an alternative universe as you explain. Which is used is Source Code, star treek, etc

2-The einstein block theory. The universe is a block which pass, present, and future always exists and existed. Which is used in Terminator 1, interstellar, twelve Monkeys, etc.

There is a third type that is explained here.. But you end with a paradox which is nosense. Like in "back to the future" movie.

If I have to choose.. I prefer the fixed time theory derived from einstein laws.

The multiverse new time lines, I find it hard to imagine of how that might happen.

I believe in multiverses, but not that you create a whole universe just because you go back in time.

[rtxoff]

I fear in that graphics you embedded the example for the fixed timeline is simply wrong. If you have a fixed timeline you can't go back and kill someone and replace it with someone else. If we assume the timelime is fixed and we travel back in time the time travel would look like an VCR tape played back in reverse. All your movements and everything that defines you will be put back into exactly the same state it was in the past. So you would not even remember that you travelled back. Time will simply flow again in forward direction and everything is going to happen exactly the same manner again as it did already.

However for me all the 3 "theories" are complete nonsense. I can't believe that any sane mind considers one of them to be possible.

Just put yourself a mechanical clock on your desk and imagine the physics required for it to run backwards (good luck with it).

[AngelLestat]

I think time travel is not possible.. but in case it is.. I dont see nothing wrong with the time fixed theory.. The universe as a block.

If we assume the timelime is fixed and we travel back in time the time travel would look like an VCR tape played back in reverse. All your movements and everything that defines you will be put back into exactly the same state it was in the past. So you would not even remember that you travelled back. Time will simply flow again in forward direction and everything is going to happen exactly the same manner again as it did already.

Not sure what are you trying to said..

But why you need to go back in time as like pressing "reverse" in a vcr tape?

Why you can not go back in time by a wormhole or any other system?

[rtxoff]

Cause time travel through a wormhole will also move you through space. You can't stay on the same place and travel back in time. It's not going to happen.

[Bill Phil]

Any time travel would require space travel in a similar manner. That's the real limitation, considering it's most certainly definite compared to the level of our current knowledge of travelling through time...

Basically, because objects in space move, you need to move the ship to accommodate. Good thing the TARDIS is a spaceship.

[AngelLestat]

I still dont get your point gpisic.. what this has to do with the "paradox" that you want to show or the flaw with the hittler example?

Is clear that this guy that is traveling back to the pass does not know that he can not change the past. Or maybe he knows and he do it anyway.

Or the terminator case, when john connor´s soldier becomes john´s father.

[Nikolai]

Or -- wildly speculating here -- perhaps there's another reason we don't see time travelers from the future: Our present is too boring.

If you had a time machine, would you go see cavemen? Sure, perhaps. Would you go see cavemen at specific points in their history they deemed significant? No, probably not -- firstly, because we've lost all record of the significance of those times (so we'd have to find them through trial and error), and second, because caveman advancement proceeds really slowly, and from an anthropological point of view, there are vast stretches of sameness.

So perhaps, once the race is technologically advanced enough or scientifically sophisticated enough to accomplish time travel into the past, we're the cavemen.

[rtxoff]

I still dont get your point gpisic.. what this has to do with the "paradox" that you want to show or the flaw with the hittler example?

Is clear that this guy that is traveling back to the pass does not know that he can not change the past. Or maybe he knows and he do it anyway.

Or the terminator case, when john connor´s soldier becomes john´s father.

The flaw is that in a fixed timeline the timeline is as it is already saying fixed. There is no change possible at all. Even if someone could reverse timeflow it would flow exactly back to the same situation you started from. Every of your actions and moves and everything around you would be rewinded back like you would rewind a vcr tape. Hell you wouldn't even remember anymore that you reversed time to some point and you would also not percieve that you are travelling back in time, we humans have no organ that could tell us. Beside from that it is not possible, you would brake a few fundamental physical laws if you could reverse timeflow in such a manner. So that example in your graphic is simply wrong for the fixed timeline scenario. And IMO it is the only real existing scenario, so far we never observed anything else then this fixed timeline.

It got pretty popular in SciFi movies to include time travel scenarios and many people are tempted to believe that it has to do anything with science. Unfortunately it is complete bulls**t. We found out that time indeed is something you can tamper with it to some degree like you could slow and accelerate time and you might even be able to stop the passing of time to a complete stop but one thing there is we never will achieve and that is reversing it.

I know that the science world out there is speculating about time travel scenarios by using FTL drives or wormholes to make a time travel into the past possible. However all of this are just speculations we have no means to verify them in any experiments and we even do not know if something like an FTL drive will ever be possible. Also wormholes exist only in speculation so far.

[Bill Phil]

I don't think you quite understand the concept. The concept is that time travel occurs, not from one point of the universe to another, but from from universe to universe.

[AngelLestat]

ok gpsic, lets forget if time travel is possible or not,. Right now nobody can affirm or denied nothing. I personally think that is not, so lets continue.

I still miss your point about the VCR tape...

You think that because is fixed then the universe is a VCR and the only way to go back is in first person watching all your pass actions pass until you reach the point you want?

Why you think that?

We can think in the universe as a 4d block, time only exist inside the universe. But our universe is like a brane in the bulk, the bulk has its own time flow. So if we can travel across the bulk, then we can see our brane and enter in any point of that brane (4d point, time and space).

So I dont know where your VCR concept appears.