Why not have "Legacy Aerodynamics" as a debug option?

[Broax]

I know everyone has an opinion regarding the new aerodynamics so I'll try to make this short.

I, as apparently many other, think there shouldn't necessarily be a dissociation between "fun" and "realism". I think realism is what makes games fun. Like some also pointed the fun of learning something hard plays also an important role.

Also, as much as I love and respect squad (which I do), I think that aerodynamics are only "hard" because of the design decision (which I respect) of having the game be more about trial and error then well planed construction. This is their decision and I have to respect this as it seems to stem waaaay before I even heard about KSP.

But in my very humble opinion this is what makes the KSP less "fun" and more grindy. This is also what makes having a better aerodynamic model feel like a choice between these two apparent extremes. If the player had a more informative UI he/she would be able to more easily make better planes while also coping with a more realistic aerodynamic model. Giving the user only the CoM, CoT and CoL might be more then enough to build rockets but I find it very lacking to build a plane.

This also makes me think that while making a rocket is super intuitive (pointy thing at the top and fiery thing at the bottom) making a plane is much harder and there is little information in the game that is designed to make better planes. This, in my opinion, is why it FEELS that fun and realism are two extreme options. If you give the player more information to build a better plane it will become as easy as you want it to be. But, obviously, not too much information or the player will be overwhelmed.

But then comes that day where you want to build random stuff and have it blow up in funny ways. While I think that would still be possible had these issues been addressed probably not every crazy thing would be able to fly. Well... Since we were forced for so long to toggle part-clipping in the debug menu why not have an "legacy aerodynamics" option? It definitely shouldn't be an option on the difficulty settings for reasons a lot of people regarded in other threads, but having it on the debug menu would make the player think of it as activating a "cheat" and using it when he/she wanted to have some crazy stupid fun like the "good old days".

I'm probably wrong in all of this but it's just my opinion. Feedback would be loved, though.

[Tw1]

I'd prefer it as an official mod, if it were to be available at all. Don't need code clogging up heavily modded installes.

BTW, the only things you'll probably miss are infiniglide, and maybe some of the souposhpere effect, and laughing at it the dodgyness. Plenty of craziness is just as doable with NEAR.

[xrayfishx]

First of all they said they'd add a few things to make building planes easier.

But the reason we can't have "legacy aerodynamics" button is that this would mean they have to balance each part for two different aerodynamic systems. Twice the work, twice the amount of bugs. If I was a mod creator, I would never even bother with the legacy aerodynamics if the option was there and I don't think many would.

TL;DR it's more work to do that.

[nanobot]

HarvesteR already stated that it will be perfectly possible to fly "old crafts", i.e. asymmetric or not-so-aerodynamic planes. Also the goal is that flight physics feels much more intuitive.

I don't see why trial and error shouldn't work anymore. It's not that you must build planes with a calculator now because drag doesn't depend on mass anymore.

Also, maintaining two versions of aerodynamics will result in a mess in the code base and also makes life harder for modders.

For blowing up the random stuff, well, a "disable atmospheric drag" button would allow this too without too much coding hassle, what do you think?

[Cirocco]

The theory of having as a debug option in the same way a "hack gravity" option seems okay, but I wonder what it will do to the code. If it doesn't cost any extra effort to keep the old aerodynamics in as a debug,sure, go for it. Otherwise I'd say just throw em out completely.

Having them as a mod is a nice option, but I think the main reason why a lot of people stick to the stock model is because they don't want too invasive mods. I run stock aero, but I'm not doing it because I think it's better than FAR or NEAR. I keep it because it's a part of the game and I just don't like very invasive or extensive mods.

As to the reasons for that? I'm not actually sure. Mods require maintenance and I'm lazy, for one. I also have this irrational idea that getting FAR would actually make it too easy to achieve orbit with stuff (your rockets require less delta-V) which would be equal to cheating in my book. Especially on Eve return missions. (don't get on my case about that one, I said it was irrational )

Third thing I can think of that might have an impact is that I want to be able to compare my creations with those of others when they post crafts/mission reports. And again I have this irrational thought that since the majority of players run stock*, I have to do the same.

So yeah, in short: if it doesn't cost additional effort, keep the old aero model in some way, sure, but otherwise I'd say just throw it out and replace it with a better stock one.

*note that I don't actually know if the majority of players uses stock or FAR/NEAR, especially when it comes to spaceplanes. Hey I *said* it was irrational

[Daid]

If it doesn't cost any extra effort to keep the old aerodynamics in as a debug,sure, go for it. Otherwise I'd say just throw em out completely.

Software engineer by trade here.

Any code, big or small, costs effort. And something big and fundamental like the aerodynamics would be a huge pain in the ass to have two versions off. It would be having like 2 different engines for your car.

[Cirocco]

Software engineer by trade here.

Any code, big or small, costs effort. And something big and fundamental like the aerodynamics would be a huge pain in the ass to have two versions off. It would be having like 2 different engines for your car.

whelp, that would solve it for me. Out with the old, in with the new. Thanks for the clarification

[Red Iron Crown]

This suggestion has been moved to the Suggestions & Development subforum.

[dryer_lint]

pure evil

Your signature is either evil or awesome. Probably both.

And by the way, I agree with Tw1. While I haven't used NEAR or FAR yet, and the idea of new aero makes me nervous, when you think about it, there's really nothing much to miss. Infiniglide is fun but gets boring...

[Vaporo]

The current aerodynamics system is horrible. Why anyone would want to keep it around other than to make it glitch out and laugh at how bad it is is beyond me. XKCD comic that pretty much summarizes my thoughts: