How to build up the nerve to go to Duna?

[Sidereus]

1) Install Kerbal Engineer, it'll provide you with per stage dv information

....

3) Use something like Kerbal Alarm Clock or Protractor to figure out when to launch to Duna, I recommend KAC because it'll also allow you to add alarms at SOI changes and such, so you don't accidentally miss you injection burn .

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Engineer more-or-less give you pretty much the same data as Protractor? It will show you the phase angle and the intercept angle in the Rendezvous window, anyway (along with a bunch of other data I haven't quite made heads-or-tails of yet ).

[T-Bouw]

Take a look at real rockets and see how they are contructed.

With rockets using staging, for instance, you can see that going up, each stage is smaller, less powerfull, lighter than the one(s) before.

You don't need to know the exact delta-V's.

And when things do go wrong, and they will, learning why is the most important thing.

Also, I don't know if you are but, playing in sandbox helps with confidence as well. With unlimited funds and the Immortal Kerbal Trio there's almost nothing you can't do!

Then you can tackle carreer more confidently.

[Tw1]

Planning is best to start from lander. You can even test it if you use Hyperedit mod. Then you build a mother craft with enough dv for interplanetary burns (and life supplies, if you use such a mod). Then launcher to put everything on orbit around Kerbin.

If you click on edit planet, select duna, then change the selection to kerbin, Duna's properties will be copied to Kerbin. This will let you test that you have enough parachuters, a strong enough set of landing legs, etc, without spoiling the experience of approaching the Dunan surface from the first time.

Everything else can be tested around kerbin, and what's left can be worked out by using an online delta V map.

[Scarecrow88]

When designing my ships, I tend to work backwards. For originally going to Duna, I planned to have a command module that was capable of returning to Kerbin, so that was the first thing I built. Recognising the efficiency of having a separate lander, this was the next thing to be designed, with the goals of being able to de-orbit, land and return to orbit at Duna. With these two key elements ready, the next part was to design and build an inter-planetary stage. Once I was happy with that, the final part was to build a lifter that was capable of getting everything I had built so far in to orbit around Kerbin; usually my lifters comprise 2 stages.

Something like engineer redux will help you with the various stages of your build, ensuring that each has enough dV to perform it's role.

Just so that you know, with judicious use of aerobraking on arrival at Duna to save fuel, going there is not so different to going to Mun, and I have in fact used a Mun craft to go to Duna, after adding parachutes to the lander to save fuel during landing.

Here's a thread showing my Mun craft going to Duna

Edited January 27, 2015 by Scarecrow88

[Scotius]

Holy sparkling boosters, people. OP just asked for encouragement - and you are trying to cram advanced math into his head? Don't listen to them dude Just watch some videos, train a bit around Mun and Minmus, send some probes. Do not pay attention to purists droning about sins of using mods - if you feel something is too hard for you, get help from MechJeb or another mod. In time you will learn to do it on your own.

[Brainlord Mesomorph]

If I'm not mistaken, you can use alt-F5 and alt-F9 to keep multiple quicksaves of your game. Every major mission I do I make a quicksave called "home" while the rocket is sitting on the Launchpad. Then make separate quicksaves once you are in orbit around Kerbin and while in orbit around the body you are landing on and once you've landed successfully...just make tons of quicksaves. That way if you get to Duna but slam straight into it, you can reload to back when you were in orbit and try again. If all else fails you can reload your "home" quicksave and have all your kerbals right back on Kerbin safe and sound like it never happened!

I do this, and to date I've never had to do a rescue mission

I like to own my mistakes. The Apollo 13 "oh, $#!), what do we do now?" moments are some of the most fun of the game. Rescue missions are very dramatic! My reloads are *usually* when the game fritzes out.

That said, I totally understand the OP.

I think in October I decided to send a truly massive expedition to Jool. Since then I've been afraid to allow time to advance in the game. I spend all my time in VAB, trying to "perfect" all the equipment I need, and planning the mission.

Enough is enough! this weekend we officially begin orbital construction!

JOOL OR BUST!

[Hannu]

Take a look at real rockets and see how they are contructed.

With rockets using staging, for instance, you can see that going up, each stage is smaller, less powerfull, lighter than the one(s) before.

You don't need to know the exact delta-V's.

And when things do go wrong, and they will, learning why is the most important thing.

Also, I don't know if you are but, playing in sandbox helps with confidence as well. With unlimited funds and the Immortal Kerbal Trio there's almost nothing you can't do!

Then you can tackle carreer more confidently.

I disagree that. If your situation is than "I ran out of fuel somewhere" you can not know what went wrong and what should be done. Of course you can make a bigger rocket and get success after many guesses, but even then you do not know anything about space flying. Stock KSP does not give you tools to learn. But if you study basic celestial mechanics, use porkchop plots and mecheb's information, plan every phase of mission carefully you can see what went wrong and correct it.

Of course anyone can play with "official fun" style, if he feel that it is better entertainment. But more systematic way makes things much easier to learn, if player really want to know how space mechanics works.

[Brainlord Mesomorph]

Of course you can make a bigger rocket and get success after many guesses,

THAT'S THE KERBAL WAY!

\(until you learn better)

[cantab]

Do you want to do things by planning and numbers? If so, look at delta-V maps and transfer planners. Look up the rocket equation and calculate the delta-V for a few of your ships, then get KER to save you the grunt work.

If not, just work on building reliable and capable rockets. You'll get a feeling for how long your fuel will last.

And if you're worried about Kerbals, just drop a probe on Duna. Or Eve, it's easier to land on (but stupidly hard to get back into space again).

[boxman]

Apathetic towards kerbals? :U

But thanks for the Quicksave thing, I didn't know that. Time to murder kerbals but consistently set time back so they'll never know how much of a screwup I am!

Actually, this doesn't really help me with rocket building. I keep not adding enough fuel, or something, and if I add more then it just explodes on the pad, or the lower stages don't get built up enough, and by the time I quit I have a rocket capable of getting there but not back that takes up half or more of the VAB.

You really dont need much to get to duna and back. My bet is that you have way too much fuel already but not enough thrust to efficiently lift the thing without burning it all up so sometimes less is more I have seen so many people overbuilding their rockets to the point where they waste it all just because they just dont got enough lift. If you for example use a nuclear engine, poodle or a lv-909 you can get pretty far with little fuel.

You can save even more if you set it for a aerobrake on duna since that way you dont even have to slow down to get into orbit and can pretty much land using parachutes.

Also make sure the planets are aligned properly so you get an encounter without going way past the orbit of duna. For newbies i really recommend going straight into solar orbit and doing it from there.

[Talavar]

I know you guys are knocking Mechjeb for inhibiting someone learning how to do things on their own, but I use it primarily for the "suicide burn and DV" status. Nothing else (unless im playing coffee style). If someone has a mod that calculates Suicide burn other than mechjeb that isn't as resource heavy, by all means, please post it! KER is nice, used it months ago, but it didn't have suicide burn, which I find invaluable.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Talavar

[haltux]

I like to own my mistakes. The Apollo 13 "oh, $#!), what do we do now?" moments are some of the most fun of the game. Rescue missions are very dramatic!

I loved my first rescue mission on Duna, I had a stranded Kerbalsitting close to its half-destroyed, lying spaceship. I sent a 3 kerbal mission to save him, it was epic.

However, I am bored with rescuing Kerbals in space that had just not enough fuel to come back home, and are stuck orbiting around the sun close the the Kerbin orbit. It happened to me three time and it is boring. It gives you the unsatisfying feeling that you almost did it the right way but not fully. And when the mission takes 3 hours, the "try it and try again" paradigm which seems to be pushed by stock KSP quickly gets on your nerves.

So just get yourself Kerbal Engineering and a delta-V map and make predictable missions. And don't worry, it will still fail often.

[Sirrobert]

I wouldn't listen to these people who are all suggesting you get a bunch of mods like KER, MechJeb, etc. They mean well, and those mods are indeed very helpful, but if you stick with manual controls for now, you'll develop important skills that'll make your life easier later on. A lot of us have played for months and never got the hang of docking, for instance, due to always relying on automated systems, and consequently they have to resort to launching wobbly behemoths for every mission.

What I do recommend is that you make liberal use of the Quicksave system. Feel free to hit F5 every time you successfully complete an important step and before anything dangerous like aerobraking. Before you know it you'll have lots of practice under your belt, or at least have discovered 999 ways not to do something

The problem is that, without any deltaV readouts (the thing people suggest KER or Mechjeb for), building a good ship is basicly guessing. And guessing is fine if you want to get to Kerbin orbit. You just add abit of fuel if you fall short.

But for an entire round trip to Duna, you don't want to realize halfway through your return burn that you are JUST short of getting home. You want to be sure

PS: There is no automated system for docking, so how exactly does having Mechjeb stop you from learning docking?

[trevize1138]

I'll cut to the chase:

Just launch a rocket to Duna.

Just do it and don't worry about the consequences.

Will Kerbals die or get stranded? Yes.

Will your attempt to land result in a crash? Most likely.

Will you just end up launching a whole new rocket and starting from scratch? Several times.

If you take screenshots of the failures will you regret it? NEVER!

There's wealth of video tutorials and information from others on this forum for you but my one big regret from when I was a n00b was being afraid to *just do it*. Failure and repeated failure will teach you quite a lot.

[Trann]

1) Install Kerbal Engineer, it'll provide you with per stage dv information

2) Keep this map close by: http://www.kingtiger.co.uk/kingtiger/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/KerbinDeltaVMap.png

just add up the numbers for your chosen location. From low Kerbin orbit to low Duna orbit you need about 1430 m/s dv for example. It is NOT exact, but it is a good indication (I suggest adding 50% extra dv, for reassurance)

3) Use something like Kerbal Alarm Clock or Protractor to figure out when to launch to Duna, I recommend KAC because it'll also allow you to add alarms at SOI changes and such, so you don't accidentally miss you injection burn .

3) Build unmanned probe missions first. Nobody in his right mind drops manned missions on the first go. We send robots.

4) Quicksave, use it, love it. There is no shame in it. Alt+F5 even allows you to name them and Alt+F9 allows you to load a specific save.

All of this.

Until KER, the Delta-V map, and KAC, I was just as hesitant because it was so difficult to plan ahead. Good luck!

[obi_juan]

._.

I read a lot of the usuals comments for this post...

My recommendation:

Go to: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/forums/20-The-Spacecraft-Exchange

Seek for an interplanetary ship. (or two or more...)

Download it, make the travel to Duna, and come back...

After that unmount the ships, and you will improve your idea of how to make ships.

I need to make the same two weeks after to start the game because I found a similar problem.

[TheSaint]

Here is a Duna mission I put together a couple of months ago. Single launch, no on-orbit assembly, no nukes. It has surface and orbital habitats and a rover. I use MechJeb, but it has plenty of delta-V, so it should be fairly forgiving for a manual pilot as well. I even had enough to take the orbiter on a side trip to Ike. The landing is dirt simple, parachutes only. I don't I have that save on disk anymore, but if you want to see a craft file I could probably whip one up when I get home from work tonight.

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[Alshain]

So, I'm afraid I'm stuck. I don't know where to go, really. I'm rather new to the game, and I hit a roadblock something a week ago or so, and I'm having issues designing a rocket, heck, even a lander that could take me to Duna successfully. It's a combination of lack of motivation, overwhelmedness by the game's scope (and more specifically the massive distances involved between planets), a concern for safety for my kerbals, and having my first and second missions to the Mun (second time was to rescue the first, third time was to rescue the rescue mission) as well as my trip to Minmus being thiiis close to being a colossal failure because apparently I simultaneously overbuild and underbuild my rockets.

I need help. Can somebody find me a guide or something, or explain what I'm doing wrong, because I'm incredibly nervous and it's completely wrecking the game for me.

Let me ask you something. Is anyone going to die if you fail? I mean real people? Are you going to lose anything in the real world other than play time if you fail?... since I know the answer, then why not go to Duna? You have nothing to lose. There really is nothing to be nervous about. If you get it wrong, you learned something and all you lost was time and pixels.

Since everyone is posting pictures, this is the Aurora. My first (successful) Duna trip, and to date my favorite. But I haven't gone back since biomes were added so I really need to do that.

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Edited January 27, 2015 by Alshain

[Melfice]

PS: There is no automated system for docking, so how exactly does having Mechjeb stop you from learning docking?

As I understand it, MechJeb does now have an automated system for rendezvous. And possibly even docking, but I won't commit to that statement even at gunpoint.

But I have a feeling most people, when they mean rendezvous, tend to say docking? Because for a lot of people, docking is a logical follow-through for rendezvous. But I could be wrong.

[Alshain]

As I understand it, MechJeb does now have an automated system for rendezvous. And possibly even docking, but I won't commit to that statement even at gunpoint.

It's had automated rendezvous and docking for a very long time. Unless it was removed, I haven't used it since 0.23. I will say I quit using it because it was indeed preventing me from learning skills.

[trevize1138]

I've done many a Duna mission so below I've linked a couple albums that may help. I've found that the dV requirements for a Duna mission can be nearly identical to those needed for a Mun mission. I've even done a couple missions on my own with a solid Mun rocket and lander where I just added chutes to the lander and it worked perfectly fine for Duna. The trick is learning up on interplanetary transfers and loading up on chutes. Let the atmosphere work for you and it's easy.

The first album shows you how to make a fairly simple, easy-to-fly Duna mission vehicle.

The second album has good details on how to do the interplanetary transfer without mods.

The third album is kind of a challenge I posed myself: how minimalistic can I do a Duna mission?

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[Ten Key]

You can fly command pods empty. . .I normally test new designs by welding a probe core to the ship, prying Jeb out of the cockpit and sending the thing on its way. If it makes it, great! If not, back to the drawing board.

I have yet to venture beyond Kerbin's SOI, but I've become a big fan of on-orbit refueling. You don't need to carry enough fuel for the entire mission, just enough to get to the next tanker. Or, if need be, the tanker can come to you.

[Pecan]

No, no, I mustn't get into another off-topic debate about MJ.

Some people think guessing or using a sliderule is cheating, there's no right way to play.

[Hund]

I too havent gone to Duna yet. I dont get when the planets are in the right phase. I'm at day 84 and every calender/calc which tells you when to launch is sooooo many days in the future it seems like it will take forever to just get to the launch window. Maybe I'm playing to linear just doing other flights while I have a flight going to Minmus/Mun. I do have KAC but dont have MJ or KER. I guess I should install them so I know about the deltaV which Ive been just guessing at. Can one turn off MJ and use it just for the deltaV info?

[Caelib]

Fail, and fail often. Don't be afraid to take risks, make mistakes and learn from them ... this is the KSP way of things. I've spent 10+ hours on a mission only to realize I forgot an essential piece and had to scrap the whole thing and start over.

As far as being overwhelmed -- set small goals for yourself ... don't worry about landing on Duna for now, just try to REACH IT and achieve orbit (with a probe). Next try to go there and get back with a probe. Next try to land a probe on the surface (parachutes work well since Duna has an atmosphere, albeit thin). I will warn you that landing on the surface of Duna and returning requires an advanced skillset because of the need to rendezvous and dock with an orbiter (if you want to do it the realistic way).

Basically, master your skills in and around Kerbin and take small steps.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Caelib