Zuqq's Observatory [Picture Heavy]

[Zuqq]

I normally just tinker around in KSP, and in fact haven't even landed or visited the majority of the planets yet. Not because I don't want to - just because there is so much you can do just on and around Kerbin! I do eventually want to make a few epic journeys to other planets (I've seen some amazing mission reports!) but I'm starting small...

I've been playing for a few months now and haven't really created anything I thought was worth showing but I think the task I've set myself deserves a thread, even if I'm the only one who reads it and it only serves to track my progress. I've decided to build a fairly complex observatory in the mountain range near the Space Center. I've come up with a few things that I want up there and I'm sure more will pop into mind. I run a fairly modded game so there should be some fun possibilities!

Step 1) Starting the Observatory the Right Way - With a Telescope!

Part A) Building a Telescope

Well, I set out on this task expecting to spend at least a few hours designing the telescope and maybe a coupe more to design the transportation vehicle. I grossly underestimated the amount of time required. I would guess I have 40+ hours into this step, not counting the actual transportation part!

The telescope (part courtesy of HullCamVDS) took a lot of tinkering to get it right. I went through a number of iterations (a few are pictured, the majority were too shameful to even take a screenshot of lol) before settling on one.

This one worked fine, but it looked sloppy and thrown together..

This one was an early prototype. I just wanted to get a hang of balancing the telescope and letting the telescope itself pivot, before working out how to make a 360 degree base.

One major design constraint was the fact that I wanted to transport the telescope with a seperate vehicle. I didn't want the telescope to have any means of movement over terrain by itself. This meant I had to keep it short, or make my transportation vehicle even bigger (it was already pretty big...)

Part Testing the Transportation Vehicles

With a rough design (emphasis on rough) for the telescope complete, I thought it would be a good time to figure out a way of transporting it into the mountains. I really thought it would be as simple as putting a large electromagnet on a winch (KAS, of course) and picking the telescope up, and starting the journey.

Obviously, that wasn't the way to go... Basically, that magnet wasn't able to hold up the 30,000kg, and dropped it. So I figured a bigger vehicle with a bigger magnet should solve the problem!

So... The bigger magnet held the weight but it was really not too stable...

But, after taking a few more approaches I finally designed something that was capable of carrying my telescope...

That's one of my failed attempts in the background there.

I had to sort of design the transportation vehicle and the telescope at the same time. I had a rough telescope design, which allowed me to make a rough transportation design. Then I worked some kinks out of the telescope design, which I had to follow up with some changes on the transportation design. Eventually it all fell together into a well designed telescope and a well designed transportation vehicle (in my opinion at least!) The telescope is perfectly balanced, and will hold its position without SAS engaged. It's only limitation is that it still moves pretty quickly even with fine control enabled. It rotates 360 degrees around and the telescope itself has a pivot range of about 220 degrees. As I said earlier, it weighs in at about 30,000kg. I'm really proud of how it turned out!

Here's the part you've been waiting for.. (Well I assume so if you've read this far! lol)

Thats me lowering the cage.

And we're decoupled!

And that marks the first official installment of the Zuqq Observatory. I have a few ideas for what to bring up next but will happily take any suggestions!

I think the next step will be a set of 5 or 10 solar powered lighting posts to light up the observatory area. I will also have to design a way of transporting and setting them up on site. I'd like to also set up a small station within a few hundred feet, complete with a fuel oupost and some speedier vehicles for travelling to and from KSC as well.

I realize my mission isn't as exciting as some of the interplanetary-super-omega-bases but this is a fun learning experience for me and I'm looking forward to setting up a fairly complex observatory. I hope you enjoyed the read and stay tuned for part 2!

[Space Peanut]

Nice work!

Quite extraordinary how much can/could get done with this engine and the world they have created.

how long did your epic journey take in game time / real time?

[Zuqq]

Nice work!

Quite extraordinary how much can/could get done with this engine and the world they have created.

how long did your epic journey take in game time / real time?

Thanks!

It really is awesome what is possible. Only limited to the players imagination!

The journey into the mountains took a pretty long time. My transporter tops out at around 24 m/s when travelling on fair terrain. Once the slopes started hitting, it could go 24 m/s but it was very bumpy so I lowered to wheel torque and continued on at about 10 - 14 m/s. I was very rarely able to use time warp because when docked to the telescope the vehicle was approaching 500 parts and it ran into some serious issues with a slight turn or a bump the size of a small rock.

I didn't keep exact time, but it was well over an hour, possibly even two, to arrive at the mountains, and probably an hour or so scouting out a flat piece of land fairly high up. My observatory is located ~3200m above sea level.

With such a long travel time I really need to figure out a faster way of transportation. I've cooked up a few prototypes for a small and fast vehicle to move kerbals to and fro the observatory... But need to figure out a faster way of heavier object transportation.

I'm currently moving four solar powered light posts (weighing in at about 3500kg each) from the KSC to my observatory and it is taking forever. I am thinking of making some sort of VTOL crane that may be able to move heavy objects faster - but I have absolutely no experience building VTOLs. I will upload pictures of the lights once I arrive at the mountains (still probably 30 minutes at least to get to the base of the mountains) and get all set up.

[Kieve]

That's quite the beast indeed! I thought at first you were using the fuel tanks as ballast, to keep your rover steady, but it looks like you have rockets as well? Were those to help it up inclines? I can well imagine the dedication it took driving that sucker out there. Reminds me a bit of trying to pilot the Centipede on its road-trip, but at least that wasn't hauling several tons of telescope assembly.

...I am thinking of making some sort of VTOL crane that may be able to move heavy objects faster - but I have absolutely no experience building VTOLs....

I've been playing around a lot with VTOLs lately. No expert, but I will say that four turbines are better than two - a quad is much easier to stabilize, particularly if you give each turbine assembly SAS rings. If you're using .90, take one of the probe cores (a HECS at least) and position it so that it faces downward. I'm not saying your bird should be unmanned but you can shift control to the drone core and use SAS to make it stabilize retro, which should make landing much easier than trying to eyeball it.

Other than that, all I can say is lots of patience (given the drive out there, I'm sure you're good) and a steady hand on the throttle.

[Zuqq]

That's quite the beast indeed! I thought at first you were using the fuel tanks as ballast, to keep your rover steady, but it looks like you have rockets as well? Were those to help it up inclines? I can well imagine the dedication it took driving that sucker out there. Reminds me a bit of trying to pilot the Centipede on its road-trip, but at least that wasn't hauling several tons of telescope assembly.

I've been playing around a lot with VTOLs lately. No expert, but I will say that four turbines are better than two - a quad is much easier to stabilize, particularly if you give each turbine assembly SAS rings. If you're using .90, take one of the probe cores (a HECS at least) and position it so that it faces downward. I'm not saying your bird should be unmanned but you can shift control to the drone core and use SAS to make it stabilize retro, which should make landing much easier than trying to eyeball it.

Other than that, all I can say is lots of patience (given the drive out there, I'm sure you're good) and a steady hand on the throttle.

The fuel tanks are acting as a ballast actually. I had to keep the CoM as low as possible or any sort of movement resulted in some serious stability issues. Theres no rockets, but the fuel tanks do supply some generators from the Kerbal Foundries mod (the wheels come from that mod as well - and are awesome). The generators operate off of very small amounts of liqued fuel and oxidizer so they provide consistant long-term power for the wheels letting me travel at night time without worry.

I will have to check out your centipede mission! I always enjoy reading other missions. It did take a LOT of dedication, I paid closer attention and it took closer to 2.5 hours to reach the mountains. I have figured out a great weight system for my w key lol! It was quite the challange keeping ~30 tons of telescope tame.

I appreciate the suggestions regarding VTOLs, I will definitely keep that in mind for when I build a prototype! My main concern will be how to stabalize the loads it has to carry. The telescope was probably on the upper side of things, but I'd like to reliably carry at least 15 tons to the mountains with the VTOL.

Anyways..

Step 2) And then there was light!

So, the telescope was functioning fine but it was quite dark up there in the mountains at night time. Considering night time is really when the best veiwing is possible, and I want to create a working self-sufficient observatory.... Lighting was the next step!

I did have a few different light designs but it obviously didn't take near as long as the telescope did. These lights are very simple, coming in at under 40 parts a piece. They have enough battery power to last ~4 hours with the lights on and solar panels to charge up during the day.

I could only safely haul about 4 at a time - otherwise I ran into some interesting physics glitches. I think it was just due to the way I secured the load this time around (one docking port on the transporter, and the lights docked to each other).

All loaded up.

Loading bay raised to prevent disasters.

Top view.

Front view with the bay in travelling position. Thanks infernal robotics!

So as you can see, this transportation system was much easier to create. But as I mentioned above - it still takes a long time to reach the mountains. Thank god for target tracking and a weighted down 'w' key. (At least until we hit mountain terrain).

Skipping out on a lot of the journey to the mountains as... Well you've seen it above and it's not that exciting!

Arrived at the telescope!

Unloading the first light.

Unloading the second light.

Not super exciting, so only one overall view!

Edited February 8, 2015 by Zuqq

[Kieve]

Those are cute little lamp-rovers. When you said lamp-posts, I was expecting small stationary assemblies, on legs or adapters of some kind. Wasn't thinking they'd be mobile, but that's very nifty.

I tried some VTOL experiments - only thing I can say is "Make sure your COM is balanced for both the plane and cargo." Seriously. My first attempt, I gave the lifter four grappling hooks, thinking they'd be more stable that way. Ha ha. After about the thirteenth fireball on the landing strip, I decided maybe the single (stock) grabbing arm might work better. Still ended in hilarious, flaming failure.

Key points:

-Your throttle behaves very differently between loaded and unloaded mass. Kinda obvious, but worth remembering all the same.

-Unless your cargo is set up with specific docking points that balance mass, don't try to air-lift it. Grapples and grabbers may seem cool, but their ability to latch on anywhere is actually a huge design flaw, since your carefully-balanced VTOL will suddenly find its COM shifted in wild and unpredictable ways. The higher the mass, the worse the effect.

Having said all that, the experiment was not without some modicum of success.

-Lift Capacity: ~30t

After abandoning the grappler idea, it has a single docking port on the bottom. Handling is a little sluggish, and the high TWR (7.5) means the throttle is super-touchy about hovering. It's all stock though, since I didn't recognize any KW or B9 parts in your structures. I mostly just built it because I've been on a VTOL kick anyway with the KAV-4X series, but hopefully it gives you some ideas. Or you can have the ship itself if you like, though I know building & overcoming challenges is a big part of what KSP is all about.

[Zuqq]

Those are cute little lamp-rovers. When you said lamp-posts, I was expecting small stationary assemblies, on legs or adapters of some kind. Wasn't thinking they'd be mobile, but that's very nifty.

I tried some VTOL experiments - only thing I can say is "Make sure your COM is balanced for both the plane and cargo." Seriously. My first attempt, I gave the lifter four grappling hooks, thinking they'd be more stable that way. Ha ha. After about the thirteenth fireball on the landing strip, I decided maybe the single (stock) grabbing arm might work better. Still ended in hilarious, flaming failure.

Key points:

-Your throttle behaves very differently between loaded and unloaded mass. Kinda obvious, but worth remembering all the same.

-Unless your cargo is set up with specific docking points that balance mass, don't try to air-lift it. Grapples and grabbers may seem cool, but their ability to latch on anywhere is actually a huge design flaw, since your carefully-balanced VTOL will suddenly find its COM shifted in wild and unpredictable ways. The higher the mass, the worse the effect.

Having said all that, the experiment was not without some modicum of success.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f321/Kieve/PWI/tigers/KAV-47Brute.jpg

-Lift Capacity: ~30t

After abandoning the grappler idea, it has a single docking port on the bottom. Handling is a little sluggish, and the high TWR (7.5) means the throttle is super-touchy about hovering. It's all stock though, since I didn't recognize any KW or B9 parts in your structures. I mostly just built it because I've been on a VTOL kick anyway with the KAV-4X series, but hopefully it gives you some ideas. Or you can have the ship itself if you like, though I know building & overcoming challenges is a big part of what KSP is all about.

I was going to make stationary lights but two things steered me in the other direction. 1) Setting up stationary things (and moving them) is much harder and makes the transportation vehicle design 100x harder lol. (See the telescope transporter vs. the light posts). 2) I'd like to be able to move the lights around as needed. I only have 4 up there now but I will make another delivery of 4 when I can muscle through the few hours of travel time. Once the second set of 4 is up I will be shifting the first 4 so I can start making a circle of light. I'd have to plan much more if I were doing it with stationary lights.

Again, thanks for the VTOL tips - they will all come in handy. I especially didn't think of the grabbing point for whatever I'm moving... I was going to use more than one point of contact for stability but I don't think I can make that work based on your experience lol. I'll have to make sure everything squares up CoM wise somehow or figure out a really strong connection (docking ports are pretty wobbly). Which may be difficult if I want to move a 20 ton "building" up to the observatory! I'm thinking of using a cage design similar to the telescope transporter which will allow me to secure the load a bit better. With the cage mounted on a winch, and some quantum struts to stop rotation. If I center the cage perfectly, hopefully whatever it is picking up will also be centered!

Im suprised to see your VTOL has a capacity of ~30t, thats awesome and would handle most if not all of my needs. It looks pretty small to handle such a load! I don't currently have B9 or KW parts on this install as I was memory-managing, but pretty soon I will be including them back in as it's hard to design some things without the extra parts. I may have to roughly mimick your layout! It looks like a nice wide and easy landing. I appreciate the offer for using the craft but you hit the nail on the head - it's much more rewarding to overcome the challanges yourself.

Step 3) What about crew?

So I was feeling a combination of ambitiousness and laziness after the lights were set up without a hitch... So I swiftly whipped together a mobile base and moved it up to the mountains over dinner. Again, target lock is awesome... It arrived without a problem and I now have a few of my smartest kerbals posted at the observatory. I'll get some better screenshots once the base is a bit more organized.

This is just a temporary solution until I can think up a more permanent solution...

I really need to start getting creative with names...

Can you tell I really like the kerbal foundries mod? Lol. They are awesome.

I do wish they had a break pressure control slider though.... I may have accidently tipped this over disembarking the launch pad... They are torquey and I went a bit too fast, followed be overcompensating the brakes... Lol

I think I need more lighting... (and turn up my light pixel count thing)

Edited February 9, 2015 by Zuqq

[Motokid600]

Completely overbuilt and I love it, lol. Nice work. I have one of my own. Hows the tracking on yours?

[Zuqq]

Completely overbuilt and I love it, lol. Nice work. I have one of my own. Hows the tracking on yours?

I'm pretty sure that was the picture that got me thinking of an observatory in the first place! From the SAS no electricity thread? Anyways, the tracking is pretty spot on but I wish I could get a finer fine control lol. It likes to go a bit too fast.

I was really curious how you grouped your reaction wheels together (if I remember correctly). Does that allow you finer movements?

[Motokid600]

It does allow for finer tracking. Mechjeb does all the movement. I find atleast my hand isn't steady enough to keep the image centered. Never did find a solution to that "out of EC" issue. But once I found that disabling your hud ( F2 ) fixed all my tracking issues it wasn't much of an issue any longer. Don't know why... But once you hit f2 mechjeb goes from off center to dead center. TAC fuel balancer helped alot too. I made the scope rear heavy originally then slowly drained fuel with TAC until it was perfect.

I want to work on an equatorial version. One that's mounted on a wedge at an angle that corresponds to the latitude. KSC lat is 90 degrees ( or maybe it's 0 ) so the entire telescope needs to essentially be mounted on a wall. Either that or I move it north like you did until 45 degrees latitude. Basically all that does is makes it so the scope only has to move in one axis to track an object. It's what you have to do in real life to take pictures so I'm curious if it'd increase image stability in the game.

Makes me wish there were more telecscope mods.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Motokid600