The Ultimate Grand Tour Challenge!

[Christoph1337]

The Grand Tour has long been something of a coming-of-age ritual for KSP players. It's the ultimate thrill: traveling throughout the Kerbol System, getting as much science as you can, never stopping or returning home to Kerbin until the conclusion of your journey. Once you prove you can land on every planet and moon of the Kerbol System without having to return home, you have demonstrated that you can handle any challenge that comes your way.

Or can you?

I hereby propose a new challenge, the Ultimate Grand Tour. Now, you might wonder how it's possible to up the stakes of a challenge that goes everywhere. Now, I'm sure that someone else more intimately familiar with the game might propose rules such as "use only a certain number of parts" or "complete the challenge in so-and-so amount of time" or "carry whatever number of Kerbals with you". I, however, have a simple solution: more planets. Using mods such as Krag's Planet Factory or the recently released Outer Planets Mod, you must set out on a new kind of grand tour, one with unfamiliar and unexplored horizons. Will you guide kerbality to new and even greater heights? Or will the once-great masters fall before this new frontier?

Rules:

1) No cheating, or I will be very sad.

2) Your mission must include a minimum of three Kerbals. You may split them up however you want (i.e. sending one guy to a different planet or moon), but all three must begin the mission together.

3) At least one of these Kerbals must land on each planet and moon in the modded Kerbol System and retrieve at many unique science reports as possible. (Gas giants need not be landed on, but getting science from within the atmosphere will earn you a gold star in my book.) After landing on all bodies in the system, you must return home to Kerbin and land all surviving Kerbals safely. (Note: the same Kerbal does not have to land each time.)

4) Whether or not to use mods is more or less up to your best discretion. MechJeb is okay, as are mods that add new kinds of experiments. Infinite fuel mods are a big no-no. I want to say mods like Karbonite that let you mine resources for fuel are borderline cheating since you should have to pack what you need, but I also think those mods are incredibly cool, so I'll leave it up to you guys to decide whether you want to use it. Basically, if it feels like cheating, it probably is. Any purely aesthetic mods should be okay. [Edit: I thought about it again and Karbonite is okay.]

5) Post a comment with your plans before beginning your mission so I can make sure it qualifies for the challenge.

6) At least five new bodies must be added in your modded system, at least one of which must not orbit any existing planets.

7) Reloading of saves is not only allowed, but encouraged. As a KSP player, I know the propensity of things to FUBAR millions of kilometers from home. Fixing a design flaw and replacing the ship mid-mission is frowned upon, but is permitted in the case of a mission-breaking ship glitch, provided the ship is restored to the exact same position with the exact same fuel levels, with as little alteration as possible.

8) You are permitted to use as many refueling missions as you want. I'm not a horrible person; I'll let you have this.

9) Remember: document everything. Rule #1 of the internet: Pics or it didn't happen.

10) In regards to "getting out and pushing", i.e. providing an out-of-fuel ship with additional maneuvering power using a Kerbal on EVA, this is permitted if the ship is completely out of fuel and within Kerbin's SOI; however, you may only perform this once for every Kerbal on the mission.

11) This is intended to be a fun challenge. If you feel that any of these rules will ruin the fun for you, then don't follow them. Just know that breaking them will disqualify you from getting on the leaderboard.

Suggested challenges:

1) The Sentar Challenge: This challenge focuses on the stock planets of the PlanetFactoryCE mod: Ablate, Ascension, Inaccessible, and Sentar. Sentar, a ringed gas giant, also has four moons: Skelton, Erin (with its own mini-moon, Pock), Ringle, and Thud. This challenge will be more of an endurance test, since it requires a lot of flying around between different parts of the Kerbol System.

Points of danger: Ascension has an extremely elliptical orbit, taking it from within the orbit of Moho to beyond Eeloo; that means you'll have to target it at the right time, before it leaves the system for who knows how long. The three smaller planets- Ascension, Inaccessible, and Ablate- are small and hard to get an encounter with, and Inaccessible rotates so fast that you can only land on the polar areas. As for Thud and it's 3x Kerbin gravity...yeah, good luck.

Other notes: I believe the pack also includes a second star system by default: the Serious system, which has only one planet, Joker. Feel free to go there if you want to be an overachiever, but it's not required to complete the challenge, since the Grand Tour technically only involves the Kerbol System.

2) The Outer Planets Challenge: This challenge utilizes the extremely well-designed Outer Planets mod, which adds three new gas giants with their own moons to the system, as well as a new dwarf planet, and also implements Squad's original idea of moving Eeloo into orbit of the second gas giant. If you don't feel like bothering with the inner solar system longer than you have to and want to explore the edges of the system, that's just fine by me.

Points of danger: I haven't actually played with this mod before, so I don't know much about it. I've heard Hale can be a pain in the boosters to land on, since it's a tiny SOI inside the much bigger SOI of Sarnus.

Bonus: For extra credit points, install the two expansions to OPM, "Outer Planets Plus" and "Plock Plus". They should add some great challenge!

3) The Kraken-Jeb Challenge: This is the ultimate challenge. For those of you who are so bored with normal KSP that you want to start doing the impossible, this is the challenge for you. The Kraken-Jeb Challenge features eight Kopernicus packs: JoolPlus, the Minor Bodies Pack, the stock PFCE planets in Kopernicus, Odysseus System, Terrestrial Planet Pack, Trans-Keptunian Pack, Kerbol Planet Pack, and the Porp System. This is the ultimate challenge, and I seriously doubt anyone will ever complete it, even with the refueling missions this will allow. But then, I've been surprised before...

Points of danger: All the bad PFCE places are still bad. Other than that, your big obstacle is the lag. Yeah, you're gonna need a supercomputer to run this on top of everything else. [Also, look around carefully; there may now be some moons around existing planets you weren't familiar with.]

Other notes: If you beat this challenge, you win KSP. Like, you're the winner. The only winner. Mad props to you, nonexistent future person.

Note: These are all only suggestions. If you have another idea for an Ultimate Grand Tour Challenge, go right ahead and use it! (But check with me first to make absolutely sure it's okay) I have been warned PFCE for 0.90 is glitchy and most people are using Kopernicus, so you can use that if you want.

Mods

PlanetFactoryCE (buggy 0.90 release): http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/65401-WIP-0-90-PlanetFactory-CE

Outer Planets Mod: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/104280-0-90-Outer-Planets-Mod-(1-5)-A-Titan-analog-bug-fixes-and-other-improvements-09-Feb-15

Kopernicus: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/88168-Early-development-0-24-Kopernicus-Planetary-System-Modifier

PFCE Packs (WARNING: may be broken; use at your own discretion)

Kerbolis Pack: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/84182-Kerbolis-planet-pack

Kerbol's Asteroid Belt (awaiting possible Kopernicus port): http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/70294-Kerbol-s-asteroid-belt-Version-0-2-Released!-Perseus-Fixed!

Urania System: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/66882-0-23-Sido-s-Urania-System-16-new-planets-and-moon-!

Sa-Fire System: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/82057-Sa-Fire-Planet-Pack-for-Planet-Factory-CE-v-4

Super Eve: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/69341-0-24-2-32x-Super-Eve-Planet-Pack-0-2

Kopernicus Packs

Jool Plus: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/82227-JoolPlus-Kopernicus-Edition-ALPHA-RELEASE!

Minor Bodies Mod: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/107873-0-90-Kerbol-Minor-Bodies-(1-2)

Stock PFCE Planets in Kopernicus: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/109358-Planet-Factory-Planets-for-KopernicusTech?p=1710357#post1710357

Odysseus Pack: https://kerbalstuff.com/mod/475/Odysseus%20Planet%20Pack%20for%20Kopernicus

Terrestrial Planet Pack (I think it's for Kopernicus): http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/110431-Terrestrial-Planet-Pack

Trans-Keptunian Pack: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/109125

Kerbol Planet Pack (may be outdated): http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/106765-Kerbol-Planet-Pack-for-Kopernicus-Version-1-0-2

Porp System: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/110710-WIP-Porp-Gas-Giant-System-0-15

Kaiser 2: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/113945-Kaiser-2-Development-Thread [Coming soon to a star system near you!]

Other Packs:

Outer Planets Plus a.k.a. Kerlanes: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/109592-WIP-OuterPlanetsPlus-v-1-5-8-Many-bugfixes-and-tweaks-Added-easter-eggs-Ocean-planet-incoming%21%21%21 (for those of you who don't think OPM is hard enough or want more to do at Urlum and Neidon)

Plock Plus: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/111748-0-90-Plock-Plus-%28Outer-Planets-Mod-Plock-Extension%29-1-0-0 (for people who want an accurate Pluto-equivalent system)

Completionists:

1)

2)

3)

4)

5)

So, that take care of everything? Good! Now get out there and fire those Kerbals at the stars! Make sure to comment if you're starting this challenge! Krakenspeed to you, participants!

Edited April 21, 2015 by Christoph1337
Edited the rules

[Right]

Ooh, exciting! Very challenging indeed. I've been developing a grand tour style challenge myself for awhile now, which may never actually come to fruition though I am still optimistic. One recommendation that may fit within the scope of your challenge: Allow UbioZur Welding for those of us without computers that can handle high part count ships. Also, I would appreciate if you could link each of the suggested challenges with the corresponding mod(s) discussed.

One question I have about the 3 kerbal rule: Do they all have to be aboard the active vessel? If yes, can you still control other vessels remotely? (Like a ScanSat probe launched from the mothership)

I've been sort of obsessed with grand tours as I feel they represent a kind of capstone, as you also alluded to. I'm excited to draft up a plan for this one!

[Christoph1337]

I see no problems with the welding mod, as long as it doesn't reduce the mass or otherwise make the game easier; it seems to be purely an FPS thing, which is absolutely fine in my book. As for the three Kerbals, you can have one or more leave the ship for landings, but the ship cannot perform maneuvers (beyond basic orbital adjustments and docking) without all three Kerbals aboard; you can't leave a moon's orbit and have the Kerbal in a lander rendezvous with you later, for example. Unmanned ScanSat probes may be piloted remotely, provided they are launched either from your ship or from a refueling vessel; basically, you can control an unmanned ship as long as it's within the same planetary system as your Kerbals.

Glad to know you like the challenge! If you decide to start one, make sure to tell me!

Note from the future: This rule has since been changed.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Christoph1337

[sdj64]

You might want to know that PFCE is rather buggy. There are however some good replacements. Outer Planets Mod is one, but there are many more:

JoolPlus is being ported over to Kopernicus

the Trans-Keptunian pack offers many Eeloo-like planets

And the planet factory planets were remade for Kopernicus as well.

Also do you need to go to the stock planets as well as the mod-added ones?

You should take a look at the delta-V for a grand tour though. I think it's about 10,000 to get to Ablate alone.

Edited February 10, 2015 by sdj64

[Christoph1337]

Well, my challenges were only suggestions. If PFCE is buggy, then by all means use the Kopernicus remakes (though I was under the impression Kopernicus is in an extremely early release, which is why I didn't mention it). Also, yes, you do also need to go to the stock KSP planets.

As for the insane Delta-V...well, I did say this is supposed to be MUCH harder than the default Grand Tour.

[Right]

You listed the Kaiser system twice on the Kraken-Jeb challenge. Also, I can't download the Kerbolis pack. Something must be buggy with that Mediafire link. The Kaiser system makes my KSP crash just after loading. Same goes for Super Eve, though it may be because I didn't install the other mods it asks for (they're all out of date). Might want to take it out if you experience the same problem.

This is all for my 0.90 installation.

[Christoph1337]

Yeah, I've heard that the PFCE 0.90 release is buggy. For now I'd recommend sticking with Outer Planets and the systems that have been ported to Kopernicus.

[Himynameisjake]

I'll set your benchmark with my stock grand tour, you can find it in my signature.

Is science the way we will be sorted? Planets?

[Christoph1337]

I think science points are going to be the scoreboard. That way the challenge will reward you for installing more planet packs. At the end of the mission record how many total science points you got and I'll list it with your name, along with what packs you used, on the Completionists section.

[Himynameisjake]

I think science points are going to be the scoreboard. That way the challenge will reward you for installing more planet packs. At the end of the mission record how many total science points you got and I'll list it with your name, along with what packs you used, on the Completionists section.

Stock, 28,532.9 science points

[Christoph1337]

Alright, so now that's the score to beat!

[ttnarg]

Alright, so now that's the score to beat!

I was thinking about doing a Grand Tour but was not going to post it here as you seemed to had quite a harsh rule about needing to land 3 Kerbals on each planet and moon.

But if your accepting Jakes entry then maybe mine would be fine too.

I like the way Ziv did the Jool5 challenge there where 4 levels you could enter but no score board. If you did something cool it would be noted on the list of winnings, infact Ziv found something nice to say about every entry on the link to them in the first post.

Scoring it by science could make it a bit grindy when you driving around each to get each biome.

[Christoph1337]

You don't have to land 3 Kerbals on each planet; you just have to have at least 3 Kerbals on the mission, and you can't move the ship without all three Kerbals on board beyond basic docking maneuvers. One guy could be the dedicated lander if you want. Also, there is no actual scoreboard; it's just an unofficial thing.

[ttnarg]

You don't have to land 3 Kerbals on each planet; you just have to have at least 3 Kerbals on the mission, and you can't move the ship without all three Kerbals on board beyond basic docking maneuvers. One guy could be the dedicated lander if you want. Also, there is no actual scoreboard; it's just an unofficial thing.

Oh thats ok then. Maybe the start of rule 3 could be clearer. My mission will have 14 Kerbals so that should be fine (I will not be having a dedicated lander:sticktongue:). If it ever gets past the planing stage I'll post it here.

[Himynameisjake]

Completionists:

1)

2)

3)

4)

5)

so...don't I get a spot?

[Christoph1337]

No, since you only landed on the stock planets during your grand tour. The "Completionists" section is for people who complete the Ultimate Grand Tour Challenge, which requires the modded planet packs I mentioned. Your accomplishment is incredibly impressive, but it also doesn't meet the requirements of the challenge. In short: it doesn't qualify unless you have at least one planet pack installed.

[Right]

Yeah, I've heard that the PFCE 0.90 release is buggy. For now I'd recommend sticking with Outer Planets and the systems that have been ported to Kopernicus.

You might want to update your links and suggested challenges based on working planet packs. I would be grateful anyways!

[sdj64]

The way the rules are written, it makes it seem like a single ship has to go from planet to planet, a la Star Trek, rather than a ship splitting into many parts that divide and conquer. This is probably not possible with stock, even with the refueling allowance you give.

With KSP Interstellar and someone who knows how to use it, this is not really that hard (but really boring as you have to land and return at least twenty times). Assuming you want the "whole ship" to go into orbit around each planet and not split into parts, the only other mod that makes it remotely possible to have the dV to pull it off without ISRU is Near Future. For the low, low price of 2.6 million Funds (BYO lift rocket), I built a NF ship with 30,000 dV that has landers on board for all the stock planets and any Kopernicus planet pack that's been released, except maybe my own WIP planet pack (I'd have to add another disposable lander for Cantor). It has a disposable Eve lander and reusable lander that can take Tylo or Slate and anything with less gravity.

For the record, I tried some designs with stock nuclear rockets, even with asparagus it has to be stupidly big to get near 15,000 dV.

I heard an often quoted number is 22,000 dV for the mothership to orbit all of the stock planets.

uses parts from Near Future, Lack's SXT, and stock fuel tanks with Color Coded Canisters

[Right]

This is probably not possible with stock, even with the refueling allowance you give.

Its possible. The key is using very low mass, high efficiency landers whenever possible, and making a smart mission plan. Two example respectively: using ion engine landers on any body with gravity weaker than Vall (which is a lot of them), and I recently discovered that using an alternate method from the basic hohmann->circularize->hohmann->circularize from Eve to Moho, the dV requirement can be reduced from ~1200dV to ~200dV. I ran the tests a couple weeks ago so memory might be off a bit, but the savings were significant.

But if it really can't be done, we always have ISRU which is not prohibited. And the refueling rule can always be revised.

@ Christoph

Outer Planets changes the stock power curve for solar panels. Is it acceptable to use the stock one instead?

Edited February 14, 2015 by Right

[Christoph1337]

Okay, yeah, I've noticed that the rules are kind of unfair in terms of the "three Kerbals" thing. I really didn't realize how limiting that would be to creativity; I mostly just wanted to make sure you didn't just have only one Kerbal for the whole mission, since that would get boring. I'm officially changing the rules to allow splitting of the ship to go to separate planets and moons, as well as KSP Interstellar in case you do want to go all in one run. I'm really sorry for this whole mess; this is the first thread I've ever created, and I'm still getting things set up.

As for the solar panel thing, you're more than welcome to do whatever you want; I have no experience with OPM. Basically, just use your best discretion on whether it should be allowed.

(Also, I'm officially adding the link to the Terrestrial Planet Pack, since Ixium looks really cool and it looks like a good challenge.)

Edited February 14, 2015 by Christoph1337

[Christoph1337]

Incidentally, guys, feel free to send in any well-made Kopernicus packs I have overlooked so I can add them to the links section.

[Christoph1337]

Also, if anyone more artistically talented than me would be interested in making a banner for the thread, I would be more than ready to accept it.

[hobbez]

4) The Kraken-Jeb Challenge: This is the ultimate challenge. For those of you who are so bored with normal KSP that you want to start doing the impossible, this is the challenge for you. The Kraken-Jeb Challenge features, in addition to the stock PFCE planets, six planetary packs: Dooz's Kaiser System, Megalodon 720's Kerbolis Pack, Kerbol's Asteroid Belt by Deadpangod3, Sido's Urania System, Cooly568's Super Eve System, and Outer Planets. This is the ultimate challenge, and I seriously doubt anyone will ever complete it, even with the refueling missions this will allow. But then, I've been surprised before...

is that a single mod incorporating all all those systems? If so, how do i find it? I don't get any results for kraken-jeb other than kraken related posts.

[sdj64]

No, it's not. There isn't any single mod for those. You're better off using all of the KopernicusTech packs, since KT is still maintained and more compatible with current KSP than Planet Factory.

Christoph might want to change that to:

Outer Planets

Outer Planets Plus

Trans Keptunian

Terrestrial Planets

Minor Bodies

Kirius

Kohman

Porp

And possibly others. You wouldn't be able to use all at once, because of memory issues. If you were to try this, load the pack you're at now and the one you're going to. Remove packs that don't have any active mission pieces anymore after you've finished.

[Christoph1337]

Well said; I haven't updated that section since I thought PFCE still worked. Will edit immediately, and will add the packs new packs you mentioned (except Kirius and Kohman, since they are other star systems and thus would technically not be part of a Grand Tour, though they would make great optional challenges).

Also, I'm not sure about the whole "remove planets that you're not visiting" thing; will that cause the game to crash when you recover the science? Or when the mission ends? Just want to be sure your challenge won't be wasted.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Christoph1337