Beginner's Notes on Remote Tech 2 in Career

[Geschosskopf]

CAVEATS:

1. I'm the beginner mentioned in the title. I've only been messing with RT2 for a week or so. However, that's long enough to discover all the traps out there for RT2 noobs, especially if you're using it in a career game. I didn't have any real guides to start with so I'm hoping to pass on my experience here.
   
2. This so far just covers hooking up the Kerbin system. I haven't yet gotten it out to interplanetary but it's more of the same really. If you can do the Kerbin system, you can apply the same techniques everywhere else.
   
3. Because I haven't gone interplanetary yet, I haven't experienced bad signal delay so haven't done much with kOS yet. I might get around to adding info on that in the future.
   

--------------------------------------------------

REMOTE TECH 2 IN A CAREER GAME

ASSUMPTIONS

I'm assuming you want to try RT in a career game as an added challenge, not because you're using some other mod that radically changes the whole science system to favor probes over Kerbals. So most of your launches, at least for science missions, will be crewed. But say you've got DMagic Orbital Science and SCANsat, which add more experiments that can be transmitted at 100%, making them attractive for probes. And you want to transmit crew and EVA reports like normal but you've decided to use RT for that more than anything else. And then there are all the part test contracts with dangerous conditions you'd rather do with a probe than a crewed ship. So even if you're still mostly sending Kerbals out there, adding RT to the mix can spice things up a bit. This is the sort of game assumed to be going on in the background, and the RT network built here is intended to support it.

But here's the kicker. Unless you can work in some simple part-test contracts into the RT launches, you're not getting any money out of your RT network. IOW, it's a sunk cost and you have to be doing other things to pay for it. So that means keeping things as cheap as possible. Not only does this mean minimizing the cost of each launch and satellite, but also building the network to last so you don't have to spend even more money launching replacement and/or upgraded satellites. No, you need to build it right the 1st time, able to meet all your needs from the get-go with future expansion capability built-in. This means the individual satellites might be more expensive, but launches cost more than satellites so that's what you're really trying to minimize. And to do this, you need to plan the network out in advance.

PLANNING

In this example, the network in the Kerbin system must do the following things:

• Provide full, uninterrupted coverage all around Kerbin orbit out to reasonably high altitude (for a SCANsat probe at 762km).
  
• Provide full, uninterrupted coverage for all of Mun and the space around it.
  
• Provide full, uninterrupted coverage for all of Minmus and the space around it.
  
• Provide uninterrupted links out of the Kerbin system.
  

Naturally, you can't afford to do this all at once, and you don't need a lot of this capability early in the game anyway, but that's the ultimate goal. So everything will be set up in stages to support this ultimate goal, with later stages added as they become necessary and affordable.

Having uninterrupted communications means having multiple available relay paths so that if a passing planet blocks 1, another will still work. This means that you need at least 2 satellites for each link in the chain. Further, each satellite must be able to talk to at least 2 others both upstream and downstream of it. The number of things 1 satellite can talk to depends on the number and type of antennae it carries. So right off the bat, we know we need at least 4 antennae per satellite, and in fact we'll need more than that, more like 6 to 8. And we'll need at least 2 satellites per link in the chain, too.

So, to meet the above goals, we're going to do the following (largely inspired by Felbourn's Project Odyssey network):

1. A ring of 3 Kerbostationary satellites which will anchor the system to KSC and be able to transmit in any direction out from Kerbin. This will be called the KGN (Kerbal Geostationary Network) satellites 1, 2, and 3. They provide the full coverage of Kerbin and link out to Mun and Minmus. We need 3 to cover all of Kerbin and to link from there outwards in any direction.
   
2. 2 satellites sharing Mun's orbit, 1 leading it a bit, the other trailing it a bit, as if at La Grange points. These will provide full coverage of Mun except for a tiny slice of the far side surface and a little bit in space above it. They will also provide a link out of the Kerbin system. These will be called MOS Leading and Trailing (Mun Orbit-Sharer).
   
3. 2 satellites sharing Minmus' orbit, same as the above. MiOS Leading and Trailing
   
4. 2 satellites sharing Kerbin's orbit around Kerbol, 1 ahead and 1 behind. The satellites at Mun and Minmus will link them to KSC. These satellites will be for interplanetary ships. KOS Leading and Trailing. We'll have 2 of them so hopefully Kerbol will only block 1 at a time.
   

A WORD ABOUT ANTENNAE

There are 2 types of antennae, dipoles and dishes. Both types come in several sizes with different ranges. Dipoles are treated (somewhat inaccurately) as omnidirectional and automatically connect to anything in range, but they have rather short range. Dishes are unidirectional and each one needs to be aimed at a specific target (a ship, a planet, or KSC itself), but they have very long range. In general, the rules for how they can talk to each other are as follows:

• Dipole to dipole: Happens automatically if they're both within range of each other.
  
• Dipole to dish: Happens if 1) the dipole is within its range, and 2) the dish is pointed at the dipole ship itself or as a cone with the dipole inside the cone. In the latter case, a dish's cone can cover a large area of space or planetary surface and all dipoles in that area can talk to the dish. So normally you'll have dishes in orbit providing wide coverage while landers and low-orbit stations have dipoles.
  
• Dish to dish: EDIT: In the same SOI, this only happens if both dishes are within their ranges AND each dish is aimed specifically at the other dish's ship. Dishes in the same SOI can't connect to each other if 1 or both is in cone mode. If the dishes are in different SOIs, however, cone-to-cone will work.
  
• KSC to anything. All networks must link to KSC. KSC will connect with any antenna within range and above its horizon, whether it's a dish or a dipole. Further, KSC will connect with dishes either if the dish is aimed at KSC specifically or is coned at Kerbin.
  

Also note that with dishes, you can target them on "active vessel". If you do this for a relay satellite, you can change focus between several ships (say in a flotilla heading for Duna) and each will become connected as you switch to it, but will lose its connection when you switch to another ship.

BUILDING THE KGN SATELLITES

1st step is to build the Kerbostationary ring. Getting to the point you can do this requires about 1100 science points to unlock the necessary parts. You should be able to get this no problem simply by doing science in high and low Kerbin orbit, about a dozen or so part test contracts, and MAYBE a Munar flyby. So until you get this far in the game, don't worry about RT. Everything will be crewed.

OK, once you're scienced up enough, time to build the KGN satellites. These need 6 DTS-M1 antennae. 1 will be coned at Kerbin, 2 will be aimed at the other 2 KGN satellites, 2 will be aimed 1 each at MOS Leading and Trailing, and 1 spare set to "Active Vessel". They also need 2x KR-7 antennae to talk to MiOS Leading and Trailing. And of course a probe core, SAS, RCS for fine control of thrust, a bit of fuel for orbital maneuvering, and enough power to run all this indefinitely.

Each of the 8 antenna consumes a little less than 1 EC/sec. The probe core and SAS combined consume a bit les than 1 EC/sec. So figure on 7 EC/sec. That's easily handled with small solar panels. But a satellite in Kerbostationary orbit will be eclipsed by Kerbin for about 1190 seconds each orbit. Mun's eclipse doesn't last as long. At 7 EC consumed per second, that's a total of 8330 EC used during the darkness. Now, you DON'T technically need that much battery because most of the time you won't be focused on these satellites so they won't actually use any. But if you want to be realistic-ish, you need that much battery. And you need some more solar panels to charge it up before it gets dark again. If you do that, then you'll end up with a satellite costing about $20K that looks something like this:

Now, because you don't have any RT network set up yet, you'll probably need to use a crewed ship to get this into orbit. What you need is a capsule, a transfer stage that can get from LKO to circularized out at ~2868km, and then bring the Kerbal back. Plus whatever amenities you think the Kerbal needs, like life support, parachutes, etc. And maybe a fairing around the lot if you're into that. It requires about 650m/s to get from LKO to 2868km and another few hundred to circularize there. And of course get back, but by then the ship will be lighter. Anyway, you might end up with something like this:

This costs another ~15K or so. Note the many struts, necessary to keep this whole thing from wobbling during launch. Of course, this needs RCS itself for both maneuvering and fire thrust control.

NOTE: You can save this whole thing as a subassembly because the crew pod isn't the root part. The root part is the probe core of the satellite.

Then you need a reasonably cheap lifter for it. I came up with this:

Total price about $73.3K. Per KGN satellite. So you obviously can't do this until you've got a quarter million spare change .

LAUNCHING THE KGN SATELLITES

OK, first get the thing into a 100km orbit. Now you're immediately faced with the problem of where to put the maneuver node for the burn out to Kerbostationary altitude, so that by the time the satellite gets out there, it'll be in the correct position relative to KSC and/or the other satellites you've already got in this orbit. How do you know where to put the node?

Fortunately, the engineers at Geschosskopf's Sand & Gravel Rocketdynamix have got you covered. We've developed the High Tech Satellite Maneuver Node Plotting Device. Here you can see it in action:

The picture is pretty self-explanatory about how to use it. This shows it being used for the 2nd KGN satellite, but you also have to use it for the 1st one to get it parked directly over KSC. NOTE: don't place the node until the ship has only 1/4 of an orbit or less before reaching it. If you place the node too far ahead of your ship, it won't work right.

Anyway, you place the node in the right place, then pull the prograde handle until you get an Ap of 2867km and some change. Then just burn out there, then circularize at Ap. And you'l lbe in the right place or close enough for government work.

Now you're out at about the right altitude and you have to fine-tune it so you're actually Kerbostationary. You don't have to be perfectly circular, you don't have to have an inclination of 0.000. What you need is an orbital period of EXACTLY 6 hours, 0 minutes, 0 seconds. Your ship might wobble around a little (like Ike seen from Duna) but it'll stay in the right general area instead of drifting around Kerbin over time, and this is all that matters. To get your orbital period nailed down, do the following:

1. Open MJ's orbital info screen or the equivalent, so you can see your orbital period.
   
2. Point the ship prograde
   
3. Turn on fine control (caps lock)
   
4. Use gentle taps of the forward (H) and backwards (N) RCS translation keys to get your orbital period as close to 6:00:00 as you can. If you need to increase the period, use H. If you need to decrease it, use N.
   

Do this with the whole ship before separating the satellite, so you're using the main RCS tanks isntead of the satellite's. Also, aim to be about 5:59:55 or so because the decoupling force will change the satellite's speed a bit.

VERY IMPORTANT: If you haven't done so already, activate 1 of the DTS-M1 antennae on the satellite and aim it at KERBIN, not KSC. If you're properly above KSC, you'll connect to it this way and you want the cone for its share of covering Kerbin. DO THIS BEFORE separating the satellite!

Once you're happy, MANUALLY decouple the satellite (using the right-click menu) and back the rocket away gently using RCS.

Then use [ or ] to shift you back to the satellite. Now use its RCS to get it right on 6:00:00. You probably won't get it exactly there but you should be only like 0.05 of a second off at most. Yay, you've got your 1st Kerbostationary satellite in place directly over KSC. Now switch back to the capsule and bring it home. And get it out of physics range of the satellite as soon as you can.

Now repeat this process twice more to get the other 2 KGN satellites in position. You'll end up with a fairly neat triangle of 3 satellites. As you bring up each new satellite, aim 1 of its DTS-M1 antennae at Kerbin and others at each KGN satellite already in orbit. You'll also have to switch back to the older satellites and aim more of their antennae at the new KGN satellites.

NOTE: Each time you switch to a satellite, be sure to tweak its orbital period as needed to keep it at 6:00:00. When you're not at the satellite, it's on rails so its period won't change, but it can change each time you switch to it, so keep an eye on this.

Anyway, the 3rd satellite will give you a fairly neat triangle, like this:

In this pic, the blue lines are the cones aimed at Kerbin. As you can see, they provide full coverage of the surface and a fair ways out into space. You've certainly got enough room in there for a SCANsat in a 762km polar orbit. The orange lines show the links between the KGN satellites and back to KSC.

THE MOS SATELLITES

Once you've built up your cash reserves again, and are preparing to go pillage Munar science, it's time to get the MOS Leading and Trailing satellites up. Following the same general rules as the KGN satellites, you might end up with something like this:

This has more LFO and 7 antennae: 4x DTS-M1 and 3x KR-14. However, due to price imbalances at present, it's actually a little cheaper than a KGN satellite. These MOS satellites have 2 purposes: provide coverage of Mun for science missions going there, and link out to the KOS Leading and Trailing satellites that will one day be out there. So each MOS satellite will aim a DTS-M1 at each of the KGN satellites (and each KGN satellite will aim a DTS-M1 at each MOS satellite to have a sure link home. The 4th DTS is coned at Mun. The KR-14s won't be used until we're getting ready for insterplanetary stuff.

Now that you have the KGN network in place, you can launch the MOS satellites as unmanned probes. They will never be out of sight of Kerbin and the KGN satellites will keep the MOS rockets linked at all times. So the rocket needed for this mission is considerably cheaper than what you used for the KGN satellites. Just remember to aim antennae on the MOS and KGN satellites to point at each other. Of course, if you've got the money to burn, you can keep on launching them with Kerbals. That's what I did in this example because a) this wasn't a "real" game, and I was in a hurry.

Also, getting the MOS satellites into the correct position is considerably easier than the KGN satellites. You just make a burn out to Mun's altitude using the stock closest approach markers so that you end up far enough ahead or behind Mun at your Ap. You want to be far enough away from Mun that you don't accidentally enter its SOI en route, and to have some safety cushion to keep you from falling into it over time.

Mun's orbital radius (12,000km exactly) is measured from the center of Kerbin, so you have to subtract Kerbin's equatorial radius (600km) from this to get "altitude" as shown in the game. You want your Ap to be 11,400km exactly. Once you've got your Ap close, slide the node around until the closest approach markers are where you want them (it really doesn't matter so long as you don't hit Mun's SOI) and do the burn.

After the main burn, make sure you're pointing prograde and use fine-control RCS with H and N to fine-tune your Ap as close to 11,400,000 meters as you can get it. Then just coast out and circularize. Now you have to fine-tune your orbital period using RCS again. You want the same orbital period as Mun, which is 1 day, 14 hours, 36 minutes, and 24.4 seconds. NOTE THAT THIS IS A 24-HOUR DAY. If you've gone to using Kerbin days instead of Earth Days, you'll have some other number. I leave that as an exercise for the interested student. But I grew up doing everything in 24-hour days so I've been sticking with that.

Also note that you'll probably be unable to nail this orbital period exactly. It'll be frustrating. You'll have it then it will just change by itself as much as 10 seconds either way. About the best I can tell you is, get it as close as you can then switch away from the satellite. But be sure to aim its 4th and last DTS-M1 coned at Mun. You should then have something like this (only with all 3 KGN and both MOS):

So there you go. Now do this again with the other MOS, and in the fullness of time, do the same again with the MiOS and KOS satellites.

I hope you find this helpful.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Geschosskopf

[mudkest]

Nice guide, another fun/interesting thing to do is place ground based relays

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=293454469

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=293454188

bit of a pain to setup, but theye'll never drift out of sync

what I done, I had 8 satellites in a 500km orbit around kerbin4 around the equator and 4 in polar orbit. I also had a scansat satellite in 250km orbit at about 60 degrees inclined, which helped a lot as i'll later point out.

I got the ground probe in orbit, then with some trial and error(quicksave/reload) got them out of orbit so they would land at the intended location, 2 on the poles and 4 aroudn the equator about 90 degrees apart. The probes had both a 500km always on antenna that I keep forgetting the name, and a commutron 16. I had an action group setup that would retract the comutron and solar panels, deploy parachutes and extend landing struts.

after the probe touched down it was just a wait for one of the 500km orbit satellites to be directly overhead and be just in range of the 500km antenna(or just out of range, a 400km orbit would have been a lot better for this. Luckily the scansat saved me 2 times) at which point another actiongroup would extend the comutron and solar panels for constant link with the satellite network. the 4 probes at the equator are enough for 100% coverage of the mun, and 2 on the poles will just about cover minmus all the time, though coverage might be a bit iffy when minmus passes its an/dn nodes.

One small problem with this setup though, is that the breakable antennas sometimes break when the ship is loaded in the distance because your active vessel comes near it. Not a problem most of the time, except when you want to land another probe near it to get some more, longer range dishes pointed at other planets. Just have the new craft equipped with a comutron so it can communicate with the satellites, and have the 500km antennas bounce the signal to the rest of the probes nearby. and don't use the breakable dishes I guess

[Mr Shifty]

Wow, this is an awesome guide! Thanks for the work put into it. A note: Mission Controller 2 adds contracts with rewards for establishing a satellite network. It doesn't have to be a sunk cost.

[Geschosskopf]

Nice guide, another fun/interesting thing to do is place ground based relays

what I done, I had 8 satellites in a 500km orbit around kerbin4 around the equator and 4 in polar orbit. I also had a scansat satellite in 250km orbit at about 60 degrees inclined, which helped a lot as i'll later point out.

That's certainly another way to do it, but it sounds expensive what with 13 vehicles just to do Kerbin. Also, how do you talk to the far side of Mun?

Wow, this is an awesome guide! Thanks for the work put into it. A note: Mission Controller 2 adds contracts with rewards for establishing a satellite network. It doesn't have to be a sunk cost.

Thanks. And I'll have to look into Mission Controller.

[undercoveryankee]

Dish to dish: Only happens if both dishes are within their ranges AND each dish is aimed specifically at the other dish's ship. Dishes can't connect to each other if 1 or both is in cone mode.

Correction. Dishes in cone mode can communicate with each other as long as each ship is in the SoI of the other ship's cone target. So Kerbin-orbiting satellites with a dish targeting Mun can talk to Mun-orbiting satellites with a dish targeting Kerbin. That might save a dish or two in some parts of your network.

[Geschosskopf]

Correction. Dishes in cone mode can communicate with each other as long as each ship is in the SoI of the other ship's cone target. So Kerbin-orbiting satellites with a dish targeting Mun can talk to Mun-orbiting satellites with a dish targeting Kerbin. That might save a dish or two in some parts of your network.

Ah, thanks for the correction. I have never been able to get cone-to-cone or cone-to-ship to work, even when the ships were within each other's cones, so I figured it just didn't work. HOWEVER, all such attempts were with satellites all in Kerbin's SOI.

But I don't really see how being able to cone-to-cone across SOI boundaries is beneficilal in a career game, at least within the Kerbin system. It's impossible to put a satellite into Munarstationary orbit because the altitude required is outside Mun's SOI. This means that if you use cone-to-cone to get 100%, uninterrupted coverage of Mun's surface and a decent area of surrounding space, you need at least 3 satellites in Munar orbit. Sure, each of them needs no more than 4 antennae (1 coned at Mun, 1 coned at Kerbin, and 1 atimed at each KOS satellite), but you have to launch at least 3 satellites to do this. OTOH, if you're willing to settle for uninterrupted coverage of about 95-97% of Mun's surface while still getting all the useful volume of space around it, you can do that with just the 2 MOS satellitews I outlined above. Because the MOS satellites aren't in Mun's SOI, they can't connect cone-to-cone despite being within the cones, so need an antenna for each KGN satellite, and each KGN satellite needs an antenna for each MOS satellite. But launches are way more expensive than antennae so I'd rather save on launches.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Geschosskopf

[weeble]

I've been debating on whether or not to launch 3 inside Mun SOI or 2 outside of it like you did. The main downside I saw with your layout is the ridiculous amount of EC you'll need. On the darkness calculator, it's telling me that a 11,400 k orbit around Kerbin would require to keep enough EC for 2,213 seconds. So if you're using 8ec/s then you'll need 17,704 EC!

So when you factor in the energy requirements of that, I can see why some would opt to just do a Mun SOI network. Especially as a simpler smaller satellite with 4 antennae, you could make a launcher that does all 3 of them and it'll probably cost you less than launching two individual satellites that has 17k EC.

[ratchet freak]

one thing I feel compelled to add is that you don't need stationary orbits for communication; any orbit will do as long as you can see at least 1 in the sky at all times

[Geschosskopf]

I've been debating on whether or not to launch 3 inside Mun SOI or 2 outside of it like you did. The main downside I saw with your layout is the ridiculous amount of EC you'll need. On the darkness calculator, it's telling me that a 11,400 k orbit around Kerbin would require to keep enough EC for 2,213 seconds. So if you're using 8ec/s then you'll need 17,704 EC!

So when you factor in the energy requirements of that, I can see why some would opt to just do a Mun SOI network. Especially as a simpler smaller satellite with 4 antennae, you could make a launcher that does all 3 of them and it'll probably cost you less than launching two individual satellites that has 17k EC.

The 2,213 seconds of darkness is the amount of time you're in Kerbin's shadow. That's going to be the same whether you're in Kerbin orbit at Mun's distance or in Munar orbit, because both are the essentially the same distance from Kerbin so pass through Kerbin's shadow at the same speed. So you're stuck the the same amount of EC either way.

The real difference in darkness time between being in Mun's or Kerbin's SOI is the amount of time you're in Mun's shadow. If you're in Munar orbit, then you zip through Mun's shadow reasonably quickly. However, if you're in a fake La Grange orbit at Mun's distance, you'll be in Mun's shadow a rather longer time. But it seems to be less time than being in Kerbin's shadow because Mun is pretty small and you're reasonably far from it.

About the only way to reduce darkness time significantly is to get out of the equatorial area, like with molinya orbits. That way, you zip through the equatorial plane where the darkness is, and spend most of your time above or below it in the unblocked sunlight.

one thing I feel compelled to add is that you don't need stationary orbits for communication; any orbit will do as long as you can see at least 1 in the sky at all times

That is quite true. And molinya orbits.

[Grunf911]

Hi,

Thought I could pitch in and add some videos to your already nice guide. Below is my RemoteTech school playlist:

Episode 1 - Most common mistakes new players make with RemoteTech

Episode 2 - Communication Networks, and Building Short Range RemoteTech Sateliltes

Episode 3 - Launching Communications Network

Episode 4 - Interplanetary Sat Assembly and Launch

Episode 5 - Duna Communications Network

Episode 6 - Deploying Rover on Duna with RT

Episode 7 - Command Centers

Edited April 24, 2015 by Grunf911
Added EP 03,4,5,6, 7

[Geschosskopf]

That's a very nice video. It goes into a lot of basic info and explains it quite well. I look forward to seeing more.

[Mtshaw113]

Im having trouble using your High Tech Satellite Manuever Node Plotting Device(dont ask me how i mess it up) But the final position, is not where its supposed to be, and my 1st satellite is not DIRECTLY above KSC but its close, and my 2nd is at about a 75 degree angle from the 1st. I have no idea what im doing so wrong

[Geschosskopf]

Well, being a fixed piece of cardstock, the High Tech Satellite Maneuver Node Plotting Device can't be adjusted so only works in a specific situation.

1. The satellite you're trying to position has to be in a 100km orbit.

2. You can only place the node when the satellite you're positioning is within about 1/4 orbit of where the node will be. This requires several iterations of holding the cardstock up to the monitor and positioning it correctly, eyeballing the distance between the edge of the card and the satellite that's going to use the node, letting time flow a bit, and checking again.

3. You of course must be positioning the cardstock correctly: corner on the north pole, long edge pointing to where you want the satellite to end up relative to KSC or other satellites. This can only work if you've set up the map view correctly. This requires focusing on Kerbin itself, rotating the view up until it hits the stop directly over the north pole, and zooming the map as needed so the long edge of your cardstock will cross the desired orbital altitude.

The 2 main sources of error are placing the node too far ahead of your satellite, which will make you come out behind your desired position, and not having the map view set up correctly, which can cause errors in any direction.

This method is of course just an aid to placing your satellites entirely by eye, without having to do any math, so is never going to be as accurate as using calculations and things like Precise Node. However, it if you do it right, you'll get more than close enough for government work. There is actually no reason to put a satellite exactly over KSC, it just has to be somewhere above KSC's horizon. Being centered over KSC just gives you the greatest margin of error and room to drift on both sides. The same generally applies to the other satellites--they just have to be above the horizon to each other, but the closer you get to an equilateral triangle, the more margin for drift you have.

So at the bottom line, kerbostationary satellite positions relative to each other and KSC don't really matter unless you're got them so far off that you need additional satellites, which adds to expense. And if you've got plenty of money, even that doesn't matter. Then you can flood a low orbit with many satellites that will move relative to KSC, each one connecting to it as it flies over. But if you want to do kerbostationary, then what really matters is orbital period, regardless of the method you use to position the satellites. The only way they'll be kerbostationary is if you nail their orbital period dead nuts on 6:00:00. If their orbits ain't quite circular and/or not quite with 0^ inclination, they'll wobble around slightly about a fixed point in the sky, but this won't affect communications. And as long as at least 1 of them can always link with KSC, and they can all link with each other, all will be fine.

[Mtshaw113]

When we are launching unmanned ships and probes, do we need to set a target from the probe to a satellite, or shouldnt it do that automatically(Because the probe has an active vessel dish)?

[Geschosskopf]

When we are launching unmanned ships and probes, do we need to set a target from the probe to a satellite, or shouldnt it do that automatically(Because the probe has an active vessel dish)?

If your existing satellites have a dish set for active vessel, then those will aim at the probe you're launching. But that probe needs itself to aim at some existing satellites to complete the link. Its own dishes set to active vessel don't aim at other satellites because it itself is the active vessel at the moment.

[WuphonsReach]

For early game, I think you might be over-thinking those first satellites. Four sats with only the omni-directional Comm-16 antenna in 700km altitude orbits around the equator can handle all communications inside of the ~3000km altitude orbits.

With only (1) DTS-10 and (1) Comm-16 onboard, you only need 0.14/s of power and about 110 reserve battery power. That means (2) Z-100 batteries will provide plenty of buffer. For the solar panels, you only need a handful of OX-STAT PVs. I put (3) on top of the Stayputnik sphere to point forward, then (3) around the bottom just above the LV-909 engine. The three at the bottom can be angled 10-20 degrees (shift-W?) so that they can pick up sunlight coming from directly behind the engine.

Launch costs for the 700km orbit sats can be as low as 14k (if I recall).

The geo-sync orbit sats are definitely more expensive launches.

[undercoveryankee]

For early game, I think you might be over-thinking those first satellites. Four sats with only the omni-directional Comm-16 antenna in 700km altitude orbits around the equator can handle all communications inside of the ~3000km altitude orbits.

With only (1) DTS-10 and (1) Comm-16 onboard, you only need 0.14/s of power and about 110 reserve battery power. That means (2) Z-100 batteries will provide plenty of buffer. For the solar panels, you only need a handful of OX-STAT PVs. I put (3) on top of the Stayputnik sphere to point forward, then (3) around the bottom just above the LV-909 engine. The three at the bottom can be angled 10-20 degrees (shift-W?) so that they can pick up sunlight coming from directly behind the engine.

Launch costs for the 700km orbit sats can be as low as 14k (if I recall).

The geo-sync orbit sats are definitely more expensive launches.

Even if you have an inner omni ring, you still need basically the same amount of hardware to cover the moons. So the inner ring is only a cost savings if you can save money by flying unmanned in LKO with omni antennas. If you're in the situation this network was designed for, needing to ultimately cover everything but without a lot of funds to spare, then it's likely cheaper to go straight to the moon relays.

[CorBlimey]

Really helpful thread discussion. Thanks!

Just started out a new career game with SCANsat and RT2 and these ideas about different ways to get off the ground are great.

Edit: Just posting that I went for a single sat in stationary orbit above the KSC, with a 1 cone pointed to Kerbin and second cone pointint to a sat in a highly elliptical polar orbit (relay sat). The relay sat has 3 mid-range dishes - 1) @ the sat above the KSC, 2) @ Mun and 3) @ Minmus. It then has 1 long-range dish for interplanetary communications. I may add a 2nd stationary sat over the far-side of Kerbin and a second relay in opposite polar orbit.

I have comms to the near-side of the Mun and Minmus which is enough for most of my science needs. For the Mun, which is tidally locked, I will stick 2 small omni sats around its equator which should provide 90%+ coverage and uptime.

Ultimately I will need to add some more dishes to the relay sat to allow pointing at multiple different planets but 1 is fine for me now (to point at Duna).

Much much simpler and cheaper than establishing whole constellations networks around Kerbin.

Edited January 10, 2015 by CorBlimey

[ROXunreal]

Why do we need KR-7 for Kerbin orbit sats to communicate with Minmus satellites? DTS-41 can reach from Minmus's orbit around Kerbin to Kerbin itself, I used it when on my manned Minmus missions to send EVA and Crew reports.

[Mars Mullo]

Yeah .. good point. I noticed that too... but hey the redundancy is way cool.

DOes anyone have a definative guide to using the Flight computer in an advanced way?

[undercoveryankee]

Why do we need KR-7 for Kerbin orbit sats to communicate with Minmus satellites? DTS-41 can reach from Minmus's orbit around Kerbin to Kerbin itself, I used it when on my manned Minmus missions to send EVA and Crew reports.

The KR-7 is useful for "active vessel" or spare dishes that need to go all the way out to the edge of the SoI, because the DTS-M1 doesn't go much beyond Minmus. Once you're using one or two KR-7 for that type of role, using KR-7 for Minmus as well is a matter of aesthetics and symmetry.

[DDay2021]

Whether you use a Keostationary equatorial orbit or something lower the orbital period of the satellites have to be a fraction of the Kerbin day for 100% coverage, 6 hrs for however many you can use 3 hrs for 2, 2 hrs for 3, 1.5 hrs for 4 as has been discussed. The orbital height is also limited by the range of satellite to satellite communication as well as Satellite to KSC. You can also launch during the morning or evening for a polar orbit, if you keep your orbit on the terminator you can arrange it so you will not go into planetary eclipse and will reduce the number of batteries required. This also works for the Mun and Minmus, you will have 100% Kerbin reception.

[alkopop79]

I can't manage to establish connection over 6000km. I have a network of three satellites at 1000km orbit, all of them with Reflectron GX-120. All the three point away from Earth (radial). Yet when I launch a probe toward the Mun, the link breaks, even if the probe has the GX-120 and it points toward Kerbin. Any idea what I do wrong?

[DDay2021]

Alkopop, it sounds as if your system isn't quite set up correctly. All three satellites should be in communication with each other, and should be communicating with KSC, so that's 3 antenna in use, and then one more antenna should be talking to the satellite/probe at the moon. I generally use point to .... for my probe communications, i.e. point to Kerbin or point to Mun.

[alkopop79]

Alkopop, it sounds as if your system isn't quite set up correctly. All three satellites should be in communication with each other, and should be communicating with KSC, so that's 3 antenna in use, and then one more antenna should be talking to the satellite/probe at the moon. I generally use point to .... for my probe communications, i.e. point to Kerbin or point to Mun.

Thanks for your help! All the three satellites are 'online': they are constantly connected to each other and at least one of them is linked connects to the ground station. Each satellite's big dish points away from Earth.

Edited February 25, 2015 by alkopop79