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  • Opt-in Prerelease for 1.1!


    Ted

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    Hi all,

     

    As I'm sure many of you read, 1.1 is to enter Experimentals this week! It's a significant update to KSP in terms of just how much has changed under the hood. We've done a complete overhaul of the user interface from a conglomerate of interface systems to Unity 5's native system. Aside from that, an entirely new system for the wheels had to be adopted due to the major changes Unity made to the native wheels system, and the list goes on!

     

    Quality Assurance is the most bare bone part of the entire testing process and is performed by around five to ten QA testers pretty much constantly. The focussed testing and efficiency mean that instead of going through the motions of the game as a normal player would, QA tends to identify areas of the new content that would usually be prone to issue and hunt for bugs there. This cuts down the time taken to find issues by a significant margin and means that the content is tested more evenly – playtesting can sometimes skip completely past some aspects of a feature. Furthermore, this method allows the testers to work closely with the developers and compare exactly what they intended to occur for specific cases, to what actually occurs – this is where QA becomes more about feedback.

     

    QA is a lot more than just finding bugs. It’s about having the knowledge of the game (especially how it works under-the-hood), the comprehension of the ideas behind the features in the game, the understanding of what a developer wants the feature to turn out like and how you can assist them in making it happen. Furthermore, it’s about condensing all of that into concise and objectively written issue reports.

     

    The QA process on 1.1 has been going for a long time, but it has been incredibly fruitful: crushing 516 issues in 107 builds! There is still more to do however, in Experimentals we hope to only increase the stability of the game, add polish to areas and carry out some bug fixing as always!

     

    The Experimental Team comprises about 100 testers. All of these testers are volunteers who contribute their spare time to playtest the game. They are normal players, sourced from the various communities via a simple application process. Often and understandably they don’t have as much spare time to devote to testing as the QA Testers and thus there are significantly more Experimental Testers ‘signed up’ than we need at any one time. This works in everyone’s favour as it keeps the activity level throughout an Experimental Phase and doesn’t put pressure on the testers while they also deal with their personal and professional lives.

     

    After we have an update go through QA, as detailed above, it is hopefully free from major issues and each feature has had any needed major improvements and refinements carried out; the update is in a feature-complete state. However, many components of a feature may still be unpolished, such as part balancing, or the performance of newer UI on different platforms. This is where Experimental Testing comes in and assists the developers in cleaning up the remaining feedback issues.

    An Experimental Testing phase typically lasts around a couple of weeks, though it is highly dependent on the number of issues that arise and how much further development is required to reach a release state. At the end of the Experimental phase, there are still a fair amount of issues on the tracker that are still open, but it’s important to note that these issues are typically minor ones, ones that aren’t in the scope of the update or simply issues that would take too much time and resources to resolve.

     

    This time around though, things will get even more interesting after Experimental testing! Given that update 1.1 will be unlike any update we’ve seen to date in terms of widespread changes to pretty much any significant and underlying system in the game we're planning to provide an optional pre-release branch of update 1.1. This opt-in branch will run for just under two full weeks before the targeted release date of the final update.

     

    The nature and extent of the changes in the update mean that many plugins and add-ons will require refactoring, updating and at the very least a recompile. Of course modders cannot do this overnight and on the flick of a switch, especially with an update of this scope. Typically a select group of particularly KSP-savvy modders would be given access to the new update to help us find bugs, but the extent of the changes this time around is such that we feel we should open it up to everyone.

     

    The pre-release branch will be opt-in via Steam only, and won't be available via the KSP Store. We really wanted to make the pre-release branch available on all distribution channels but given the frequency of builds, the size of those builds, and the necessity for everyone to be on the latest version for testing it proved to be impossible to facilitate this on the KSP store.

     

    To facilitate discussions of the pre-release branch we’ll be opening up a temporary forum for feedback. Additionally, a separate section will be made available on the bug tracker to report bugs on.

     

    Please feel free to ask any and all questions you have!

     

     


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    5 minutes ago, KerbonautInTraining said:

    Our (store users) logic is:

    Steam users = extension of the experimentals team

    Store users = for teh lolz

    Only problem is "teh lolz" would cost an enormous amount of money for very little benefit.

    I wouldn't recommend to any Steam user to use the 1.1 pre-release for regular playing of the game. There is a huge range of issues that can (and will) occur in a development build, especially one with an extent of changes to the game that 1.1 brings. Let me stress that the 1.1 pre-release versions should not be considered something that's ready for normal use.

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    1 minute ago, KasperVld said:

    Let me stress that the 1.1 pre-release versions should not be considered something that's ready for normal use.

    I would think it's stable enough to get a general feel for the update (new UI) but I've been wrong in the past.

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    7 minutes ago, KasperVld said:

    I wouldn't recommend to any Steam user to use the 1.1 pre-release for regular playing of the game. There is a huge range of issues that can (and will) occur in a development build, especially one with an extent of changes to the game that 1.1 brings. Let me stress that the 1.1 pre-release versions should not be considered something that's ready for normal use.

    You do realize that this is extra right? This is tacked on after the normal amounts of experimentalls and QA. At most it will have 25% more bugs than a normal release.

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    Just now, nosirrbro said:

    You do realize that this is extra right? This is tacked on after the normal amounts of experimentalls and QA. At most it will have 25% more bugs than a normal release.

    You do realize he's Squad staff? Just saying he PROBABLY knows what he's talking about. More than the rest of us do.

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    Just now, nosirrbro said:

    You do realize that this is extra right? This is tacked on after the normal amounts of experimentalls and QA. At most it will have 25% more bugs than a normal release.

    It's up to you to weigh the risks and benefits. We will be very clear about them.

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    SQUAD cast Flame 5 --> Community

    I don't care if i have to left the forum for 20 days for not die of envy, at least Squad can email users when the release is ready ?

    Regards

    Luca

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    42 minutes ago, severedsolo said:

    No. It would take much longer. This is experimentals. It's not "oh yeah let's let these guys play around with it before we release it." It's "we need help finding bugs before we release it." If they didn't do this, you'd see two options:

    1) It would release at whatever the internal release date was anyway, full of bugs. Everybody moans a'la 1.0.

    2) They take much longer to fix and find bugs, the game stays in experimentals much longer, it delays release by an unspecified amount of time.

    Does it suck? Sure, and if the boot was on the other foot I would be disappointed, but I would move on. The reasons given are good ones, and I'd get 1.1 a little earlier than I would have otherwise.

    Edit: relevant post by Kasper:

     

    Except that unless you consider getting the game sooner being much longer, you're totally incorrect based on your own quoted post...

    "The alternative would be to have no pre-release branch available at all, which would mean we'd tack on at least one more week of experimental testing..."

    2 weeks of pre release or one more week of experimentals.....maths

    That would mean that only the actual "official" testers and modders would be there and not a bunch of rando users based on their place of purchase(which is how it should be).

    Edited by Elway358
    typos
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    Just now, Elway358 said:

    Except that unless you consider getting the game sooner being much longer, you're totally incorrect based on your own quoted post...

    "The alternative would be to have no pre-release branch available at all, which would mean we'd tack on at least one more week of experimental testing..."

    2 weeks of pre release or one more week of experimentals.....maths

    That would mean that the actual testers and modders would be there and not a bunch of rando users based on their place of purchase(which is how it should be).

    You understand that the pre-release period is still part of the experimentals right? They are doing this as a way to speed experimentals up. What I took Kasper to mean is "we hope for two weeks of experimentals once we drop the pre-release (as per the blog post), if we don't do it, it will take three weeks (minimum)"

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    Since I do not use Steam but still want to support KSP growing and improving, I purchased another copy of KSP. On the KSP store of course, to make a point.

    What I really don't understand is why Squad are opening up pre-releases again. I hated the decision when Squad axed them years ago because a growing minority of users didn't understand they were testing an alpha version. Certainly the issue has not improved since then, with ever more new users who even less expect to test a buggy pre-release. On top of that, Squad exclude a large part of the community who were here from the start - who were here precisely because they wanted to help test and improve an unfinished product, and who already got slapped in the face by that decision the first time around.

    As much as I love this game, I'm surprised time and again by the PR decisions made by Squad, being a marketing company...

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    40 minutes ago, aWildLupiDragon said:

    You do realize he's Squad staff? Just saying he PROBABLY knows what he's talking about. More than the rest of us do.

    I actually hadn't realized that he was Kasper XD 

    If he really thinks it would be that buggy then I may have to reconsider that statement :P

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    11 minutes ago, Corax said:

    Since I do not use Steam but still want to support KSP growing and improving, I purchased another copy of KSP. On the KSP store of course, to make a point.

    What I really don't understand is why Squad are opening up pre-releases again. I hated the decision when Squad axed them years ago because a growing minority of users didn't understand they were testing an alpha version. Certainly the issue has not improved since then, with ever more new users who even less expect to test a buggy pre-release. On top of that, Squad exclude a large part of the community who were here from the start - who were here precisely because they wanted to help test and improve an unfinished product, and who already got slapped in the face by that decision the first time around.

    As much as I love this game, I'm surprised time and again by the PR decisions made by Squad, being a marketing company...

    wtf? would u prefer not to have the pre-release on steam anyway? Doesnt matter if YOU can use it. but if u guys continue arguing this way, Squad my just cancel this pre-release thing and ALL have to wait for the finished product and noone can test the pre-release.

    So Just because 1/2 of the community cant use it, u r flaming around now? thats not worth it! Just accept, that it is "either steam users or noone" and stop destroying the whole "pre-release idea".

    Edited by Speadge
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    4 minutes ago, nosirrbro said:

    I actually hadn't realized that he was Kasper XD 

    If he really thinks it would be that buggy then I may have to reconsider that statement :P

    Unrelated note - Nosirrbro, go online on steam.

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    34 minutes ago, severedsolo said:

    You understand that the pre-release period is still part of the experimentals right? They are doing this as a way to speed experimentals up. What I took Kasper to mean is "we hope for two weeks of experimentals once we drop the pre-release (as per the blog post), if we don't do it, it will take three weeks (minimum)"

    Actually it's you who that isn't understanding. You can word it experimentals, beta, pre release, whatever you please. The fact remains that by the time steam users get a hold of this, the real "experimentals" will have been completed.

    From the OP...

    "This time around though, things will get even more interesting after Experimental testing! Given that update 1.1 will be unlike any update we’ve seen to date in terms of widespread changes to pretty much any significant and underlying system in the game we're planning to provide an optional pre-release branch of update 1.1."

     

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    I read the article and thought, "that's awesome. A huge amount of users will go in and knock out bugs. Despite playing at least 15-20 hours a week, I probably won't download the experimental because I honestly don't want to deal with the bugs."

    Now I'm thinking that the hostile parts of the community really deserve a kick in the teeth. Personally I hope that the devs just open up the experimental testing to active modders and say something gentle and apologetic about not wanting to "screw over" store users. Though now I can imagine some people getting liquided that all modders could get into experimentals, asking, "what about me!? I have two YouTube videos, I contribute to the community!"

    Maybe we should just all be forced to wait for 1.1. And obviously if store/steam are 1 second apart, there will be pitchforks.

    /s

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    26 minutes ago, Speadge said:

    wtf? would u prefer not to have the pre-release on steam anyway? Doesnt matter if YOU can use it. but if u guys continue arguing this way, Squad my just cancel this pre-release thing and ALL have to wait for the finished product and noone can test the pre-release.

    So Just because 1/2 of the community cant use it, u r flaming around now? thats not worth it! Just accept, that it is "either steam users or noone" and stop destroying the whole "pre-release idea".

    You see, three or four years ago we had regular releases that were not tested and QA'd, and were made available for general bug testing, regardless of being "feature complete" or bug free in any way.

    With growing numbers, more and more forum users arrived who didn't understand that concept. The signal-to-noise ratio dropped to the point where Squad decided to withhold public test releases on the grounds that it were more productive that way.

    Now they tune into much higher noise than ever, and hope to find a signal again... I certainly do hope it turns out well for them, however if their reasoning back then was correct, they would be facing more work to sift through the complaints, and worse, bad word-of-mouth reputation, than getting useful bug reports.

    Edited by Corax
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    7 minutes ago, Elway358 said:

    Actually it's you who that isn't understanding. You can word it experimentals, beta, pre release, whatever you please. The fact remains that by the time steam users get a hold of this, the real "experimentals" will have been completed.

    From the OP...

    "This time around though, things will get even more interesting after Experimental testing! Given that update 1.1 will be unlike any update we’ve seen to date in terms of widespread changes to pretty much any significant and underlying system in the game we're planning to provide an optional pre-release branch of update 1.1."

     

    Fair enough, you are right I didn't read it properly. My understanding was that this would be the "last mile" on experimentals. My bad.

    However, point 1 of the post you originally replied to still stands:

    Quote

    1) It would release at whatever the internal release date was anyway, full of bugs. Everybody moans a'la 1.0.

    Let's take Kasper's scenario in the post I quoted at "best case" and experimentals are delayed by 1 week. So we get the release 1 week earlier and it's buggy as anything. I can handle waiting an extra week.

    Edited by severedsolo
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    1 minute ago, Corax said:

    You see, three or four years ago we had regular releases that were not tested and QA'd, and were made available for general bug testing, regardless of being "feature complete" or bug free in any way.

    With growing numbers, more and more forum users arrived who didn't understand that concept. The signal-to-noise ratio dropped to the point where Squad decided to withhold public test releases on the grounds that it were more productive that way.

    Now they tune into much more noise than ever, and hope to find a signal again... I certainly do hope it turns out well for them, however if their reasoning back then was correct, they would be facing more work to sift through the complaints, and worse, bad word-of-mouth reputation, than getting useful bug reports.

    Squad has changed a lot since then. There's now more paid QA members and more experienced volunteer testers to help assist the community at large and to sift through the noise to find that signal, and the builds are coming after having been tested in QA and experimentals. It's reasonable to assume they've considered the downsides as well as the upsides and still believe its worth the time and effort to go through with this.

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    6 minutes ago, severedsolo said:

    Fair enough, you are right I didn't read it properly. My understanding was that this would be the "last mile" on experimentals. My bad.

    However, point 1 of the post you originally replied to still stands:

          Quote

    1) It would release at whatever the internal release date was anyway, full of bugs. Everybody moans a'la 1.0.

    My only reply here is I think it's a preeetty safe bet that there is gonna be an equal amount of moaning amount bugs at the "actual release" regardless of pre release "testing." Obviously this is pure speculation and opinion on my part; Although a pretty fair assessment based on historical facts surrounding this product.

    Edited by Elway358
    wacky formatting
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    Hopefully the salty-ness will die down Soon. 

    I started off very upset (like many others) but I recently realized:

    That thing everyone's been hyped about for a year now? 64 bit? Physics optimization? Giant heat shields? Remember that? It's still coming, and it's nearly here. Nothing about that is changing. (As Kasper said it's probably coming ~1 week earlier than it otherwise would)

    Sure, there will be a few awkward handshakes in the days after release, but that 2 week gap will mean less and less over time until we forget about it. 

    Edited by KerbonautInTraining
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