1.1.2 Magic Smoke Industries Infernal Robotics 2.0.2

[allmhuran]

OK, rewrote all the code to do two passes over all of the servos, which is inefficient but does work.

Came across a "bug" of sorts that looks like it's pretty old from a google search but didn't find much info on it. Might not be an IR bug, just something to do with the way KSP works.

If you have a cockpit with an IVA mounted on a servo, and then change the orientation of the cockpit via the servo, your IVA view doesn't change direction (even though the cockpit part itself does change direction).

If you set the cockpit as the root part then the IVA view does rotate correctly. Unfortunately, if you set the cockpit as the root part then the servos will behave differently, rotating the rest of the ship more than the part with the cockpit (because all of the reaction wheels on the craft will try to maintain the orientation of the root), although I'm experimenting with workarounds and will post again if I can figure something out.

[Perry Apsis]

hey,

i am trying to rescale the parts using tweakscale.

sadly, the larger the parts become, the more problems i get. (not tried downscaling)

starting from "not moving at all, but the window say it does" over "moving on invisible stack" up to "parts splitting while moving".

is that normal?

Have the problem mainly with the pistons

IRPistonScaleable

TelescopeFullAScaleable

KSP 1.0.4

Tweakscale 2.2.1.0

IR: 0.21.3

I'm having a similar problem (and I've just read 48 pages of comments looking for anything like this). I have a standard docking washer at 2.5m between the non-rotating part of my station and the ring. If I move it in the VAB, the bottom section rotates. If I launch it, neither section moves, but the windows shows that the angle is changing. It's acting like I've got both halves of my station attached to the same side of the washer or something, but I've checked very carefully and it doesn't seem to be, plus it works in the VAB.

I'm using a fresh install of KSP 1.0.4 with:

IR 0.21.3

model rework - core v01b

model rework - expansion v01b

kis/kas

Procedural Parts v3.15

TweakScale v2.2.1

all installed through CKAN

...and way too many more, but these seem like the ones most likely to be relevant.

Anybody have any thoughts on this? Thanks in advance for any tips you can provide.

[allmhuran]

Perry and Speadge, I might be able to help a little bit.

I have been working extensively with complex IR craft and I have seen this phenomenon on a few occasions, where the IR part does not apply the expected transform to some or all of the parts beneath it in the tree.

I have been able to track down five cases:

1) Servo on "upside down". The side of the servo with the yellow "tape" and arrows should be connected to the subsection of the craft that containing the root part. This won't always cause a transform problem, but I have seen it happen sometimes. I haven't been able to pin down exactly when it happens and when it doesn't.

2) Struts. Even if struts aren't accidentally placed such that they cross the servo and fight against it, struts on the child of the servo part can sometimes cause issues. Again, I haven't been able to pin down the exact cause, but try moving or removing your struts.

3) Certain mod parts resist transform by the IR servos. The KAS anchor part definitely does not like being moved by IR. I'm not sure what other parts might have this issue. Here is an example where the anchor part on the left toe doesn't want to move.

4) When using multiple servos in a "closed loop" structure created by docking ports. My understanding is that IR parts figure out their orientation relative to the root of the craft in the VAB/SPH. Docking a craft to itself (or to another craft) can apparently cause the root part to change, which has a chance of messing up the servo orientation (ie, the two servos will potentially start to fight one another). No real solution to this problem since I don't think the change is necessarily consistent. IE, on one launch inverting the servo might fix the problem, but on another it might cause the problem. Related to case 1.

5) "Other". Sometimes the problem occurs even when the servo is the right way around, there are no struts, and there are no mod parts. I haven't been able to determine the cause in these cases, but reassembly sometimes fixes it. Example here, although this may actually have been an example of issue 2 (there's a strut from the girder to the structural fuselage piece)

Edited July 27, 2015 by allmhuran

[Perry Apsis]

Hi, Allmhuran. Thanks for that excellent reply. I fear I'm either in the "mod parts" or the "Other" category. I should have included more detail, like that I have tried moving the washer to different places on the stack, that I've flipped it over, that it's not between the root part and a docking port, that...

...okay, I just re-read the part on struts and realized that it could have applied here, so I went back and removed all struts from the vessel, and the behavior did not change...

Where was I? Oh, right, mod parts. I've got a lot of procedural parts. I wonder if that could be the cause.

Lastly, I should have mentioned that I tried this with a rotatron and it worked perfectly fine, but the poor little thing was just too floppy. There was no way I was getting into space with it in the stack, and it didn't seem to want to scale anywhere near large enough.

Anyway, I appreciate all that information.

[Ziw]

Perry, did you try a smaller subassembly - just the ring, washer and 1-2 parts on top of it, did it work?

[Ratzap]

Just a quick note: the curse download link is missing the colon after http and doesn't work.

[Perry Apsis]

Ziw, I did. I removed all procedural parts and anything that wasn't stock--no change. I removed really everything except a decoupler, an orange tank, and a Skipper from below the washer, and still no change. Then I pulled almost everything from above it and it finally started working.

I did a lot more combinations and found something quite amusing. In one config that's not very different from the one in the pic above, when I started the rotation, the only thing that moved was the Gigantors that were attached to the science lab. Those moved first clockwise then counter-clockwise, about 1/8th of a rotation each way. Removing those and the science lab, moving the reaction wheels below the ring, didn't seem to make any difference.

Is there any diagnostic info I can look at?

------------------

EDIT:

It looks like it could have to do with TweakScale. When I scaled it back down to 1.25m everything went off like a charm. Wasn't easy to get into orbit and I want to do a lot more with it before I have my final version up there, but the control cabin, docking ring, and science labs are stationary and the habitation ring is spinning, so w00t!

Thanks for supporting this great mod, and thanks to both of you for your help.

(While I've got you all buttered up, have you considered a free-spinning washer with a lock?)

Edited July 28, 2015 by Perry Apsis

[123nick]

hey im not sure why, but for me the robotics tab didnt show up in the editor. in the config file, all of the categorys are set to none. is this interfering with USI mods, which add custom tabs? or KIS, which adds a custom EVA items tab? it shouldnt, because those 2 mods work together. for infernal robotics, i had to set all of the config files to Utility, replacing the none. i can change it back if u want for debugging, but i hope the solution is easy to find.

edit: fixed it. turns out i didnt have the base magic works infernal robotics. but really, you should make the threads look more different. there so.... similiar.

Edited July 28, 2015 by 123nick

[Ziw]

To Allumhuran,

I might be able to remove the ActiveVessel limitation from IR UI and API, it appears to be easier than expected, but updating kOS API might take a bit longer due to longer dev cycle, though I might give you access to preview builds once I have this sorted on IR side.

[TiBERiUM]

Sorry to be so rude that my first post is a question

I just unzipped the IF mod from the startpost, as i did with many mods before. Problem is; the new robotics tab is created in the VAB, but it is empty. I also see an IF button at the botom right of screen, pressing that does nothing. When installing the package from this thread i see a few white parts but still nowhere near complete. What i tried already: removing all other mods, reinstalling IF, downloaded newest modulemanager.dll (2.6.6.) Nothing helps. Can anyone help me on my way?

[Tarheel1999]

Sorry to be so rude that my first post is a question

I just unzipped the IF mod from the startpost, as i did with many mods before. Problem is; the new robotics tab is created in the VAB, but it is empty. I also see an IF button at the botom right of screen, pressing that does nothing. When installing the package from this thread i see a few white parts but still nowhere near complete. What i tried already: removing all other mods, reinstalling IF, downloaded newest modulemanager.dll (2.6.6.) Nothing helps. Can anyone help me on my way?

Did you look in a sandbox save (not career)? If so all I can say is start with a fresh KSP install and try again.

[allmhuran]

To Allumhuran,

I might be able to remove the ActiveVessel limitation from IR UI and API, it appears to be easier than expected, but updating kOS API might take a bit longer due to longer dev cycle, though I might give you access to preview builds once I have this sorted on IR side.

That would be amazing.

Perry: Nice work finding the issue, I know how painstaking it can be! What I've been doing for my new v1.04 mechs is turning them into, basically, a mod. I create an assembly, then weld it all together as a new part, then edit the config. This overcomes a whole bunch of issues specifically when it comes to using IR:

1) It lets me set the mass to something super low. This may seem cheaty but given the limitations of the unity joints that IR has to use, there's really no alternative if you want joints that appear to be "realistically strong". You can always add mass back to the root assembly if you want realistic overall mass for the craft.

2) The part welding mod doesn't rely on tweakscale, even if you use tweakscale to build your assembly. Once the assembly is welded into a single part it simply sets the value for the scale on each model reference. Some stock parts don't work well with tweakscale, for those (like the mk1 structural fuselage) I literally copy the squad part config file, save it as a new part, edit the rescalefactor to what I want it to be, and add that to my assembly. Once the welding is done you can delete the modified config you created, because the welding mod just holds a reference to the actual model and the scale, not the part config file that was used.

3) You don't need to strut pieces together "downstream" of the IR joint, eliminating that as a source of transform issues.

The downside, of course, is that if you want to share your creations you have to distribute your welded parts as some kind of mod. Note, however, that AFAIK other users *do not need* the welding mod itself. They only need the "welded" part config files and any parts that were used in the welded part.

[TiBERiUM]

Did you look in a sandbox save (not career)? If so all I can say is start with a fresh KSP install and try again.

Yes i am working with a career save which i really like to continue on. I have invested over 80 hours in the progression there and don't want to start over Besides; other mods which add parts (like USI-OKS/MKS) work perfectly normal and i installed that one at almost the same time. (so alsno not on a fresh install of ksp). Of course i can start fresh and see if it works just to get more information about the problem... but would that provide any usefull information to later be able to integrate IF into my saved world?

[ZodiusInfuser]

Yes i am working with a career save which i really like to continue on. I have invested over 80 hours in the progression there and don't want to start over Besides; other mods which add parts (like USI-OKS/MKS) work perfectly normal and i installed that one at almost the same time. (so alsno not on a fresh install of ksp). Of course i can start fresh and see if it works just to get more information about the problem... but would that provide any usefull information to later be able to integrate IF into my saved world?

It would confirm that the parts are being loaded by the game correctly.

I think I've experienced this before. Look back at your tech tree. If you have nodes already unlocked and add in new mod parts they don't automatically get enabled even if the node is unlocked. You have to go and unlock each part individually. I have no idea why KSP does this.

[Tarheel1999]

Yes i am working with a career save which i really like to continue on. I have invested over 80 hours in the progression there and don't want to start over Besides; other mods which add parts (like USI-OKS/MKS) work perfectly normal and i installed that one at almost the same time. (so alsno not on a fresh install of ksp). Of course i can start fresh and see if it works just to get more information about the problem... but would that provide any usefull information to later be able to integrate IF into my saved world?

Always use a sandbox save to check if parts are in the game and for general testing. You can have multiple saves without a problem. It avoids problems with unlocked tech nodes. If the parts aren't showing up in career it is likely that you have not unlocked the appropriate tech node.

Zodius - KSP is much better about unlocking parts in 1.x. I haven't experienced any problems adding parts to a career save (yet).

[TiBERiUM]

Always use a sandbox save to check if parts are in the game and for general testing. You can have multiple saves without a problem. It avoids problems with unlocked tech nodes. If the parts aren't showing up in career it is likely that you have not unlocked the appropriate tech node.

great advice, solved it. I did find the parts in sandbox... made me check every technode individually in my savegame. Turned out those parts where indeed linked to locked nodes. Since i did not know this could happen with mod parts (other mods i have installed allowed me to use every part without unlocks), i never bothered to check. Thanks Tarheel and Zodius!

[Tarheel1999]

No problem. Sorry if my first post was cryptic. I didn't want to cause offense to a long time player who just created a forum account.

[tainurn]

I'm having an issue with the telescopic piston...it extends backwards no matter what I place it on, and no matter what node I use. the rod always comes out of the back of whatever it's attached too.

[Ziw]

I'm having an issue with the telescopic piston...it extends backwards no matter what I place it on, and no matter what node I use. the rod always comes out of the back of whatever it's attached too.

This is very odd. Could you please send the log and in the meantime try the Zodius Reworked part - Extendatron

[volcanicshrimp]

Are there any mods which add struts which would change length/direction as one end is moved by IR parts? It would be really useful for reinforcing big parts on small hinges etc all the time they're moving (not just before and after you move them.)

Edited August 1, 2015 by volcanicshrimp

[tainurn]

I don't know to take logs...but I can upload some pictures if that would help.

[AccidentalDisassembly]

I don't know to take logs...but I can upload some pictures if that would help.

All you have to do is start up KSP, do the things in question (make a ship with a piston, launch it, see what happens, try things out, make it break), then close KSP. Look in your KSP_Win directory for a folder called "KSP_Data". In there, you'll find "output_log.txt" - this is your log, and it's always created every time you play, no need to do anything yourself.

Use Dropbox or Pastebin or something like that to make it available.

[About.Blank]

So recently I've been trying to create rocker bogie style suspension for my rovers, but the issue I ran into was that I couldn't have a free rotating rotatron with rotational limits. If I could make a suggestion that that be added on, I think we could make some truly fascinating designs with them! Also if anyone has any input how to get past this little hurdle I would love to hear it!

Keep up the good work with this mod too, absolutely love making contraptions.

[volcanicshrimp]

I'm having an issue with the telescopic piston...it extends backwards no matter what I place it on, and no matter what node I use. the rod always comes out of the back of whatever it's attached too.

Which way round are you putting it? I had a similar problem to this before I realized that you have to place it so that the orange end is facing away from the direction that it extends and the smaller size has to be placed on the end which extends (with the orange end inside the bigger extendatron).

That isn't a very good description but I hope you understand what I mean.

[brusura]

Which way round are you putting it? I had a similar problem to this before I realized that you have to place it so that the orange end is facing away from the direction that it extends and the smaller size has to be placed on the end which extends (with the orange end inside the bigger extendatron).

That isn't a very good description but I hope you understand what I mean.

Also I found out that it's better to avoid put it on a root part