Re-Entry Heating And parachutes

[Kerr_]

Both behave in ways I feel I can call 'Broken' at the moment.

A Simple example:

Small Parachute, MK1 Command pod, heat shield, decoupler, 'Kickback' booster.

1. Launch this rocket straight up, detatch the used booster once it's empty. It will raise up to 350K + and then fall back at high speed.

2. If you tip the pod AT ALL during re-entry it will be destroyed. aerodynamics do not stabilize the command pod in the ideal position like they should.

3. If you keep the pod exactly set, so it is protected by the heat shield, the entire heat shield will be consumed, then destroyed, then the pod will be destroyed.

Now remove the heat-shield from the design.

1. Launch this rocket straight up, detatch the used booster once it's empty. It will raise up to 350K + and then fall back at high speed.

2. Activate the parachute as soon as you are out of atmosphere. (it will open once you are back in)

3. The parachute will activate, then there will be a MASSIVE g-spike, and at about 20K height, the craft will reach ~ 160 m/s speed, and fall at that speed till it reaches ground...

This violates some expectations about how this should work.

[Caelib]

Your re-entry path is too steep and you WILL burn up in real life the exact same way it is being simulated in the game. Your periapsis should be ~30km and you will be fine for re-entry.

In your example of not having a heat shield ... I don't think they intended re-entry without them. In fact, you will not be able to travel beyond LKO and return without one.

[zarakon]

The amount of drag from partially-deployed parachutes is pretty insane, definitely does not seem correct

[Tankbuster32]

I've been playing with Deadly Reentry and FAR without problem using just that trick - 30km periapsis and smooth reentry, though for some reason it doesn't seem to work in 1.0. My capsule just wants to tip nose-first all the time during reentry, but only does this when the heat shield is attached. It does not tip when I remove the heat shield, though it is required for surviving reentry.

EDIT: Nevermind, found a fix:http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/117279-How-to-fix-those-hetashields%21-%28get-rid-of-command-pod-flipping-into-the-heat%21%29

Edited April 28, 2015 by Tankbuster32

[Kerr_]

Your re-entry path is too steep and you WILL burn up in real life the exact same way it is being simulated in the game. Your periapsis should be ~30km and you will be fine for re-entry.

In your example of not having a heat shield ... I don't think they intended re-entry without them. In fact, you will not be able to travel beyond LKO and return without one.

I'm more focused on the cruddy parachute behavior here. You can make virtually any landing with enough parachutes is what I'm getting at. Meanwhile you need extremely careful planning and maneuvering to use heat shields. God forbid If your ship doesn't fit one of the three available sizes of heat shields.

[bakanando]

The parachutes do seem extremely OP. I have had some ships breaking from 900m/s to 60m/s in a very short amount of time, which should rip the parachute or the ship apart.

[X-SR71]

Both behave in ways I feel I can call 'Broken' at the moment.

A Simple example:

Small Parachute, MK1 Command pod, heat shield, decoupler, 'Kickback' booster.

1. Launch this rocket straight up, detatch the used booster once it's empty. It will raise up to 350K + and then fall back at high speed.

2. If you tip the pod AT ALL during re-entry it will be destroyed. aerodynamics do not stabilize the command pod in the ideal position like they should.

3. If you keep the pod exactly set, so it is protected by the heat shield, the entire heat shield will be consumed, then destroyed, then the pod will be destroyed.

Now remove the heat-shield from the design.

1. Launch this rocket straight up, detatch the used booster once it's empty. It will raise up to 350K + and then fall back at high speed.

2. Activate the parachute as soon as you are out of atmosphere. (it will open once you are back in)

3. The parachute will activate, then there will be a MASSIVE g-spike, and at about 20K height, the craft will reach ~ 160 m/s speed, and fall at that speed till it reaches ground...

This violates some expectations about how this should work.

I'd like to add that you probably don't even need a heatshield on scenario 2. I've been landing mk1 command pods with the small chute only. My only concern is how Jeb's brain doesn't turn to mush with the massive 20+G spike.

[Spar7icus]

i just did a return from the mun with no heat shield, all you have to do is set your apo to around 50km and let friction take over. it might take a few orbits but you will eventually get back to kerbin safely as long as your chutes can support your ship,

But I will agree that heating doesnt quite work yet, i was faceing retrograde on the final descent with the pod at the top of the ship and the engine at the bottom as per normal, the engine got to around 400/450 degrees the pod reached nearly 1700 degrees when it should have been the coolest part on there

Edited April 28, 2015 by Spar7icus

[Bedwyr]

I'd like to add that you probably don't even need a heatshield on scenario 2. I've been landing mk1 command pods with the small chute only. My only concern is how Jeb's brain doesn't turn to mush with the massive 20+G spike.

Depends on heat effect percentage in settings. Is that still true at >100%?

[Rickenbacker]

The capsules tipping with the heat shield is a bug. More (and a hotfix) here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/117279-How-to-fix-those-hetashields%21-%28get-rid-of-command-pod-flipping-into-the-heat%21%29/page2

[Aerindel]

I think most of you guys are missing the point. The parachutes are INSANE! while the heat shields are almost useless. You can deploy a parachute going 2k+m/s and your craft will almost instantly slow and fall the rest of the way. The way it is right now there is no reason to ever pack a heat shield, just use a parachute since they seem indestructible and slow you instantly from any speed.

[Caelib]

I think most of you guys are missing the point. The parachutes are INSANE! while the heat shields are almost useless. You can deploy a parachute going 2k+m/s and your craft will almost instantly slow and fall the rest of the way. The way it is right now there is no reason to ever pack a heat shield, just use a parachute since they seem indestructible and slow you instantly from any speed.

Yeah, I think this should be fixed by making a deployed parachute vulnerable to heat, in addition to make it so the suspension lines rip off at high-Gs.

[Matt516]

Absolutely. Parachutes should be susceptible to heating and snap off if deployed at too high a speed.

[Tobyz28]

Absolutely. Parachutes should be susceptible to heating and turn in to a fireball if deployed at too high a speed.

Fixed!

[Aerindel]

I wish the real game was fixed. Bugs I can understand. ridiculous parameters I don't.

[Kerr_]

Yeah, I think this should be fixed by making a deployed parachute vulnerable to heat, in addition to make it so the suspension lines rip off at high-Gs.

Partially deployed parachutes still have way too much drag. like I said, from ridiculous speed (3Km/s +) you slow all of the way down to 160 km/s by the time you hit 20Km - before entry-heating can do its thing.