Extreme frustration with new Physics engine

[Mariano Silva]

Guys,

I had to just come here and tell you all... I'm extremelly frustrated with the HARD it is to fly ANY rocket now with the new Physics engine... i've been playing KSP for years, and now I can't even put a simple capsule in orbit... it sucks.

For people like me, it would be great to have the game allow us to use the "old" method, or have a simple tutorial of how to flight stuff now... I've seen all the videos available online, not moving my path over 5 degress from the navball liftoff course... anyway, impossible.

Anyone, which is the best tutorial to learn to play the game again?

Regards,

Mariano

[n0xiety]

Use mechjeb and all your pain will end. Besides thats how they do it in real life. Everything works on autopilot. No astronaut controlls the craft.

[Geschosskopf]

The dV required to get to orbit in 1.x is only about 3600, down from the previous 4500. So you don't need as big a rocket. Also, it really helps to make the rocket long and sleek. Short, wide, asparagus things don't fly very well. Try to keep your rocket a single stack, maybe with a couple SRBs if really necessary, and put some fins on the bottom. Finally, launch in a continuous gradual curve keeping your nose within about 5^ of your prograde marker.

If you used to play with FAR, launching in stock is now pretty much the same as that.

[Wanderfound]

Heavy bits at the front, draggy bits at the back, gimbal is good. That's really all there is to it.

[The-MathMog]

Guys,

I had to just come here and tell you all... I'm extremelly frustrated with the HARD it is to fly ANY rocket now with the new Physics engine... i've been playing KSP for years, and now I can't even put a simple capsule in orbit... it sucks.

For people like me, it would be great to have the game allow us to use the "old" method, or have a simple tutorial of how to flight stuff now... I've seen all the videos available online, not moving my path over 5 degress from the navball liftoff course... anyway, impossible.

Anyone, which is the best tutorial to learn to play the game again?

Regards,

Mariano

I was surprised by this too at the start. But it is easy to fix. Make sure that your rockets are AERODYNAMIC!! This is sooo important now. So put a fairing over your hardware that you are launching into orbit, while also putting a significant amount of control surfaces/tail fins, on your rocket to keep it stable.

And lastly, don't turn too drastically while inside the atmosphere. If your rocket is not "very" stable, then don't deviate more than 5 degrees from your prograde vector! And stability modules can help quite a bit too.

In the beginning I had a lot of issues too in 1.0. But following these steps, it has become quite easy again.

Also note, that with the new aerodynamic model, you will have to make your gravity turn earlier, and now you only need aroun 3500-3600 D-V to get into a stable low kerbin orbit!

[LittleBlueGaming]

Post a picture of a rocket you're having trouble with, and we could give you some specific advice.

I just launched a little torus space station, I wasn't able to do a full gravity turn, but by putting the regular delta-fins on my center stack, and on each of my boosters, I was able to keep control. Adding that extra drag at the tail end makes the rocket tend to correct itself back toward prograde in the atmosphere.

EDIT Here it is:

Edited June 7, 2015 by LittleBlueGaming

[OddFunction]

Guys,

I had to just come here and tell you all... I'm extremelly frustrated with the HARD it is to fly ANY rocket now with the new Physics engine... i've been playing KSP for years, and now I can't even put a simple capsule in orbit... it sucks.

The game is hard which reflects the realities of rocket science to a reasonable extent. On the flipside, if the game was easier then we may have people in here wondering why rocket science is so trivial

Read the comments above this post, if you're still having trouble post a picture of your craft. Once you learn the new ground-to-orbit routine its really not bad at all.

[Eric S]

I'd recommend this tutorial for some tips on understanding the forces that go into rocket flipping.

Beyond that, I'd say:

Do an actual pitch maneuver and then gravity turn rather than the old 10km up then pitch 45 degrees. The amount of the pitch maneuver needed will depend on the TWR of the craft and when you do it. Higher TWR or higher altitudes mean having to be more aggressive with the pitch maneuver.

Complete your pitch maneuver before going near Mach 1. Because of how aerodynamics work, the flipping tendancy is at its worst near Mach 1, and I find trying to punch through Mach 1 before doing the pitch maneuver leaves me having to make a very aggressive pitch maneuver.

Try to be pointing straight prograde during staging events. Not only does this help boosters not get shoved into your central core, but staging tends to be a critical point in rocket flipping because you're usually discarding something with low mass but a lot of surface area, meaning your CoM won't move much, but your center of pressure does.

When in doubt, post asking for advice. Include screenshots of the craft in question, a basic description of your ascent profile, and at what point the flipping happens. Probably the only thing more frustrating than trying to help someone deal with a flipping rocket when your own attempts at launching that rocket fly with no problems because you're not recreating the situation accurately enough is being the person with the flipping rocket.

[cybersol]

Heavy bits at the front, draggy bits at the back, gimbal is good. That's really all there is to it.

Haha, I really like this summary!

For the OP, here are my general tips for old players:

You are not alone. This spinning thing is something we all initially had trouble with in the new 1.0+ aero until we learned to engineer and fly new rockets.

Spinning out of control essentially comes down to a contest between drag and control. When the drag overcomes your control authority, you go for a spin. You can decrease drag by staying closer to prograde and building a more aerodynamic rocket. You can increase control using engine gimbals, stabilizer wheels, and control surfaces.

Also note that drag increases significantly right around mach one (340 m/s), so you should stay pointed as prograde as possible at speeds around 290-400 m/s.

On a rocket, any control fins should be as low and outside as possible. If you are using control fins on more than one stage, the CoL needs to stay below the CoM at all times, even as the tanks empty.

[John FX]

One thing to be aware of is when you stage away the first stage, your thrust usually changes, as does your TWR and often your ratio of frontheavy to backdraggy alters.

If you are spinny just after staging, add some draggy bits to the back of stage 2 as well.

I had a craft that would do a flip after dropping the SRBs and I found that strutting up the boosters meant less flexing so when they staged there were less weird forces and my craft remanined stable. Similarly, restricting thrust 5-10 seconds before staging can help sometimes.

[rkman]

have a simple tutorial of how to flight stuff now...

Wait, the tutorials that come with the game have not been updated?

[Lukaszenko]

Maybe slow down, too? Especially in the lower atmosphere.

[Higgs]

Use mechjeb and all your pain will end. Besides thats how they do it in real life. Everything works on autopilot. No astronaut controlls the craft.

this is not a 100% guarantee tho. MechJeb has some funky bugs in it right now. take for example, the pre 0.90 like say .26 for example and its compatible mechjeb, IT could use launch to rendezvous, now? its just a button taking up GUI space if you ask me, as that button causes odd things to happen. has been so since .90. no one listens...back on point. MechJeb CAN help, DOES help, but, much like a 5 year old, you really need to keep your eyes on it.

Post a picture of a rocket you're having trouble with, and we could give you some specific advice.

I just launched a little torus space station, I wasn't able to do a full gravity turn, but by putting the regular delta-fins on my center stack, and on each of my boosters, I was able to keep control. Adding that extra drag at the tail end makes the rocket tend to correct itself back toward prograde in the atmosphere.

EDIT Here it is:

http://i.imgur.com/xW1CpxN.png

DUDE! you related to Jeb? Cuz, how the green goo cans did that puppy fly in the new aero?!?

Edited June 8, 2015 by Higgs

[Warzouz]

Strangely this has not been said : don't activate SAS until 40km (when aero is mostly gone). SAS tend to overcompensate ant throw your rocket out of "mostly-prograge" angle which results in very unstable and wobbling ascent.

[Wanderfound]

DUDE! you related to Jeb? Cuz, how the green goo cans did that puppy fly in the new aero?!?

Notice the huge and numerous fins at the bottom? And the nosecones? And the large supply of gimballing engines?

Stock aero or FAR, build and fly it right and you can launch almost anything. If it's a draggy load, you just need to balance out the drag with gimbal and fins.

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[FancyMouse]

I didn't find it hard to make the transition from 0.90 to 1.0 - I only learned two tips before I made my first 1.0 orbit. (1) CoM before CoL. (2) transonic drag is huge.

[Chaos_Klaus]

Wait, the tutorials that come with the game have not been updated?

Yes, they were updated.

Also. The physics engine is still the same. Only the aerodynamic model changed.

[LittleBlueGaming]

DUDE! you related to Jeb? Cuz, how the green goo cans did that puppy fly in the new aero?!?

Couldn't turn it at all until 20km, or it would lose control when the first boosters burned out. Got it to around 45 degrees by 40km, at which point the drag is so negligible you could turn the thing 45 degrees to prograde and hold it steady.

It took me more than a few tries, and I just had to keep adding more/larger fins.

- - - Updated - - -

Strangely this has not been said : don't activate SAS until 40km (when aero is mostly gone). SAS tend to overcompensate ant throw your rocket out of "mostly-prograge" angle which results in very unstable and wobbling ascent.

In my experience, SAS is fine as long as your rocket is solid. Any flexing and then it can cause tons of problems.

- - - Updated - - -

http://imgur.com/a/XrLl9

That's... awesome!